The Jewish People Policy Institute Israel Index survey found that 8 out of 10 Jewish Israelis agreed with Trump’s proposal of expelling Palestinians from Gaza.
Forty-three percent of all Israelis said that the expulsion plan was “practical” and should be implemented, while 30 percent said the plan was “desirable” but not practical.
A minority of 13 percent - made of up 54 percent of Palestinian respondents and just three percent of Jewish Israelis - described the Trump plan as “immoral”.
Holocausts for thee but not for me
This is a damning result for Israeli society.
I have minimal knowledge of sociological research in Israel/Palestine, but if this result is an accurate representation of the views of Israeli Jews, then we can with confidence say that an overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews support genocidal colonialism.
Always has been. Look up Tel Aviv University’s peace index for more despair juice. There should be a findings link if you want to see the depravity of Jewish Israeli society in detail.
Israel is so unbelievably cooked as a society holy shit.
Always has been. Honestly it’s impressive that they managed to even survive as a democracy for sp long, but it seems to be coming to an end (please Bibi we’re counting on you).
The only bad genocide is our genocide.
Religion is just a complicated excuse for violence
Zionism is a political ideology, not religious. In fact it’s completely opposed to judaism as it has existed for thousands of years. It’s goals are explicitly political (eg. genocide and ethnic cleansing) without any relation to the actual religion of judaism. For this reason it’s anti-semitic to claim that zionism is a jewish or religious ideology.
The only religion here is fascism - the worship of the state.
Yeah but when you walk around Israel it’s not a Zionist section and a non Zionist section.
It’s a Jewish area and a Muslim area.
The Muslim area is over policed, a ghetto
No? It’s a Jewish area and a Palestinian area. Palestinian Christians aren’t spared by Israel.
I’m taking about Jerusalem and East Jerusalem specifically
This is the Arab / Muslim area.
Yeah this is what I’m talking about. Christians live in these areas too, making up 5% of the population of East Jerusalem.
Dude don’t blame this on religion. This is Zionism and fascism, both of which are post-Enlightenment Western inventions through and through.
But I will blame it on religion.
I do.
All those things only exist under the protection of untouchable religion.
You’re missing out the on the most important religion here.
This song perfectly captures my feelings on the subject:
Many of the early leaders of the Zionist movement, such as Theodor Herzl, were secular or atheist, emphasizing Jewish cultural and national identity over religious belief.
In contemporary Israel, about 45% of Jews identify as secular or non-religious, and secular Zionists—who may self-identify as atheist or traditional—constitute roughly 55% of the population.
Maybe they use it as a cover to justify their crimes against humanity, but as another person said, blaming it entirely on religion is a cheap deflection that tries to overshadow the root causes of such madness. When reading your first comment, I was somewhat in agreement, but your last one makes it seem like religion is the main reason for their deeds, as if the other 7 billion religious humans act the same way they do…
Defending religion is silly
It’s make believe.
It’s all bad faith.
Everyone is secular.
They just claim to be a member of a religion so they can justify cruelty to people who claim to be members of a different religion.
All your baloney about the founding of Israel ignores one thing: it’s a religious state for a specific religion.
In a holy war with a different religion.
All religions do this.
All religions indoctrinate their members to dehumanize outsiders.
This is a sub human trait, to not see the humanity in other humans.
Ipso facto : all religious people are willfully subhuman
This is simple logic not curated historical facts to push an agenda.
Hail Satan.
Atheists, is this guy just an idiot or do y’all actually believe this?
A. I am an idiot
B. Atheists don’t believe the same things. That’s the whole point.
C. I’m not an atheist I am anti theist.
D. Is for dodgers.
I hear your opinion but it’s not accurate and can lead to dangerous roads.
You must try to understand that the majority of the world has been exposed to incommensurable pain and suffering. From an anthropological perspective, it is rational and logical for the brain to protect itself by creating beliefs. Through social and cultural processes, these beliefs become embedded in societies.
Claiming that this is a subhuman trait is disingenuous because it is in human nature to seek explanations for what we observe in our environment. We are wired that way.
These actions should only be evaluated through the lens of this principle: “The freedom of one ends where the freedom of another begins.”
There are religious people who are kinder than atheists, and atheists who are more evil than religious people. Today, religion may be used as a political tool for authoritarian regimes, but tomorrow it could be something else.
Eradicating religion would not solve anything.
What’s a good compromise? Am I allowed to ridicule other people for their beliefs?
It is a core tenet of my philosophy
Why not? it does not infringe on anyone.
However, recognize the irony in claiming that all religions dehumanize outsiders, right before labeling religious people as subhuman. (The tolerance paradox does not work in this case)
Adding to this, PunkRockSportsFan ignores that religion has been used to end violence. Christianity was a huge part in the US abolitionist movement.
I mean you can’t play that card when the entirety of slavery was justified by that same Christianity up until the point that a civil war ended the argument. Again, religion had nothing to do with it besides giving conviction to anyone based on what they feel, in their head, god wants. Abolitionists were religious just like every other person in america in 1880, and Abolitionists were not the majority.
I mean you can’t play that card when the entirety of slavery was justified by that same Christianity up until the point that a civil war ended the argument.
Uh… No? Slavers made up race to justify slavery specifically because they couldn’t use Christianity to justify it anymore.
Ever heard of the Quakers? Quite a few * other sects.
Were they the ones for abolition? I always associate them more with the revolution than the civil war but I could be mixing them up with the whigs
How many wars have been fought because of religion? Religions very commonly use fear as a method of control (Christians even invented hell just for that purpose). This makes them unfortunately well suited for fascist takeover.
How many wars have been fought for a state? Every single one.
The shit? The pioneers of fascism—Hitler and Mussolini—appealed to the Enlightenment-era ideologies of race and nationalism a lot more than they appealed to religion, and Ben Gurion was an atheist. Then in modern Israel you have liberal Jews and ultraorthodox Jews, who are both equally supportive of the genocide of Palestinians for Lebensraum (though liberal Jews are more likely to prioritize getting the hostages back). MAGA is also build on nationalism, race ideology and a notion of a “great America”, with religion only taking an auxiliary role. Again, fascism and Zionism were invented in and keep being practiced by the least religious region in the world; don’t make this the fault of religion because it’s quite obviously not. Religion isn’t the cause of everything you don’t like. Y’all invented this shit so own it.
Lmao what? The Nazi Party publicly and loudly identified with religion and persecuted and purged the Jews who had been treated awfully by Christians in Europe for centuries. Sure Hitler wanted to see the end of Christianity, but he was quite religious himself per the Goebbels Diaries: “The Führer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. This can be seen in the similarity of their religious rites. Both (Judaism and Christianity) have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end they will be destroyed.” So privately Hitler was religious, and publicly the Nazis were religious, and one of the most sickening, widespread, and prominent atrocities they committed was the persecution and genocide of a religious minority.
The Nazi Party publicly and loudly identified with religion
Okay and? Did you want them to be outspoken atheists in 1920s Germany?
Most historians argue he was prepared to delay conflicts for political reasons and that his intentions were to eventually eliminate Christianity in Germany, or at least reform it to suit a Nazi outlook.
and persecuted and purged the Jews who had been treated awfully by Christians in Europe for centuries.
Okay and? Antisemitism was already a thing independent of the Christianity that created it. The Holocaust also went after leftists,
“The Führer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race. This can be seen in the similarity of their religious rites. Both (Judaism and Christianity) have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end they will be destroyed.” So privately Hitler was religious, and publicly the Nazis were religious,
Yeah why do you want them to be atheists? Nearly everyone was religious back then, so obviously they were going to be religious too. And in the first place, Hitler repeatedly challenged orthodox religious beliefs in his time, so if anything to him Christianity was a pain in the ass that he needed to deal with and not a part of his ideology. He also persecuted non-Nazi Christians almost as soon as they took power.
and one of the most sickening, widespread, and prominent atrocities they committed was the persecution and genocide of a religious minority.
See above.
I would argue that even though they identified a bit with Christianity, they weren’t religious. The nazis used lots of christian symbolisms and rhetorics due to cultural heritage as a way of garnering support.
But, stating that nazis were religious as in they adopted clear doctrines and rituals is fallacious, their philosophical beliefs were more akin to pantheism than anything else.
Religion isn’t the cause of everything you don’t like.
Never said it was. And I didn’t say religion was the source of fascism either.
Don’t excuse religion’s faults; it has been used to cause massive amounts of human suffering. Yes, it can be a positive tool. But it’s a tool that has a well documented history of repression and violence.
And of course, instead of solving underlying issues, we should just blame and ban surface level problems so that nothing ever changes.
Religion is just a tool, not a cause. The cause of all the problems you quote are ego and power-mongering. Those things twist anything they touch, not just religion.
The solution is not more vapid reactionism.
Religion’s usefulness is way overestimated. It’s a crutch.
And what solution? Religion? Yeah, hell no.
And it’s pathetically ironic seeing a zealous reactionary projecting so predictably.
Blow it out your ass, for all I care. ～(つˆ0ˆ)つ｡☆
Crutches are useful tools. Do you advocate that someone who’s broken/sprained limbs to just suck it up and walk it off? That’s needlessly toxic.
Religion is not a solution, and I never said otherwise. I said it was a tool, nothing more or less. It’s effectiveness as a tool is questionable, I agree.
fucking thank you
This makes them unfortunately well suited for fascist takeover.
-You. This whole conversation is also about fascism. The proposition that religion is fertile ground for fascism is simply not supported historically.
Yes, it can be a positive tool. But it’s a tool that has a well documented history of repression and violence.
Yes, but not under fascism. That’s what I’m trying to say here. Screw the Crusades, post-Reformation wars, the modern Iranian regime and the Taliban, but that shit has nothing to do with fascism. Religion and fascism (which is a form of state religion) are actively competing ideas.
Religion is excellent cover for it, though.
No? Religion can both support and oppose fascism, but looking at Hitler and Mussolini and thinking “religion did this” is frankly ahistorical and is nothing but a way for atheists to feel better about themselves.
You’ve reversed the order, and that doesn’t work.
“Religion enables violence” is not the same as “All violence is caused by religion.”
“Religion enables violence” is not the same as “All violence is caused by religion.”
Yes, and I’m saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler’s inherently race-based ideology. Hell, the Nazis defined Jews via their ancestry, not their religious observance. What did religion have to do with the Generalplan Ost or the Aryan race?
Aryan race stuff, as exemplified in 19th and 20th century racial superiority, actually starts with lingustics.
Yes, and I’m saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler’s inherently race-based ideology.
Okay? You’re the only one talking about that, and nobody is disagreeing with you. Although I might add that Hitler and his ilk were kind of famously into the occult. Perhaps not a religion, but certainly religious.
Let me rephrase: Yes, and I’m saying that religion had very little to do with Hitler’s inherently race-based ideology, even as a cover. Nazis were religious to the extent that everyone at the time was religious, but religion was just another thing they pandered to and didn’t have a big role to play in their activities except insofar as all non-Nazi ideologies—religious or not—were targets of extermination.
I’d like to say that so are zombie films and media.
zombies have become an excuse to dehumanize and glorify justifiable violence against humans at this point.
