I do kind of agree, this is a bit much, but we are giving them lots of weapons, like i understand maintaining the alliance & there is a large jewish lobby in the USA but like the ammunition would be much better spent in Kharkiv or Robotnye vs Gaza City imo.
But let’s not pretend that the timing is anything but an excuse to beat on the “US BAD” drum.
I would disagree.
It’s a valid tactic to shame the US in order to move public opinion in a way that affects democrats. That’s a legit strategy to remove the biggest roadblock to holding Israel accountable, not just a chance for cheap political point-scoring.
I’m sure it will also be used for that by some but so what? We are bad. We’re a state. Any organization that holds power based on their control of violence is by definition evil. And worse, we’re a global imperial power, the worst kind of state. Maybe you think we’re the lesser evil, but we’re still quite obviously bad. All countries are vermin.
I would disagree. It’s a valid tactic to shame the US in order to move public opinion in a way that affects democrats. That’s a legit strategy to remove the biggest roadblock to holding Israel accountable, not just a chance for cheap political point-scoring.
But will it? Bringing charges against the Biden administration are unlikely to cause the Biden administration to change course, because such would be immediately jumped on by pro-Israel Democrats (ie the majority) and the entire Republican Party. It’s unlikely to change opinions here in the US for the better, because Republicans want genocide, while Democrats have already largely made up their minds as to whether Israel’s response is disproportionate or not.
That leaves a small number of swing voters to change - but the only change that would be noticeable by them would be an abandonment of the anti-Israel elements of the Democratic Party for not being anti-Israel enough. In every other scenario, their opinions on Israel are immaterial due to the overwhelming support from the other two, larger groups.
My point isn’t that we shouldn’t be calling out Israel’s genocide for what it is. We absolutely should be. My point is that apportioning blame to the Biden administration or attempting to hold the US government legally responsible for someone else’s genocide is counterproductive at best.
By itself almost certainly not, but it’s rare for any one thing to change policy. Maybe something interesting comes out in court, or the government’s arguments make it look particularly bad. Probably not, but equally I doubt it’s going to backfire strongly.
I don’t know, man. It probably won’t backfire on the people bringing the suit, but it very easily could damage Biden at no expense to the pro-Israel wing. Which, in case anyone else reading this needs it to be said, would have even less desirable results regarding the ongoing genocide.
Put another way, if Biden ends up punished at the ballot box, pro-Israel voters are a MUCH larger bloc than us anti-Israel voters. The sad strategic answer of the next candidate will not be “Biden lost pro-Israel votes AND anti-Israel votes by stepping away from Israel; I had better step even further away in the hopes that it’ll be good enough for them this time!” it will be “Anti-Israel voters won’t help me if I step away from Israel, so it’s better to just go all-in on uncritical support for genocide to keep pro-Israel voters”.
When an official begins to step away from long-standing policy embedded deep into the institutions of government, the answer shouldn’t be to drag them for not stepping away far enough. It should be to emphasize that the move is good, and should be repeated.
I do kind of agree, this is a bit much, but we are giving them lots of weapons, like i understand maintaining the alliance & there is a large jewish lobby in the USA but like the ammunition would be much better spent in Kharkiv or Robotnye vs Gaza City imo.
I mean, I’m in support of stopping aid to Israel entirely, and have been for years, since this is not in any way a new genocide.
But let’s not pretend that the timing is anything but an excuse to beat on the “US BAD” drum.
I would disagree.
It’s a valid tactic to shame the US in order to move public opinion in a way that affects democrats. That’s a legit strategy to remove the biggest roadblock to holding Israel accountable, not just a chance for cheap political point-scoring.
I’m sure it will also be used for that by some but so what? We are bad. We’re a state. Any organization that holds power based on their control of violence is by definition evil. And worse, we’re a global imperial power, the worst kind of state. Maybe you think we’re the lesser evil, but we’re still quite obviously bad. All countries are vermin.
Truest statement of 2024
As true now as it was in the neolithic.
But will it? Bringing charges against the Biden administration are unlikely to cause the Biden administration to change course, because such would be immediately jumped on by pro-Israel Democrats (ie the majority) and the entire Republican Party. It’s unlikely to change opinions here in the US for the better, because Republicans want genocide, while Democrats have already largely made up their minds as to whether Israel’s response is disproportionate or not.
That leaves a small number of swing voters to change - but the only change that would be noticeable by them would be an abandonment of the anti-Israel elements of the Democratic Party for not being anti-Israel enough. In every other scenario, their opinions on Israel are immaterial due to the overwhelming support from the other two, larger groups.
My point isn’t that we shouldn’t be calling out Israel’s genocide for what it is. We absolutely should be. My point is that apportioning blame to the Biden administration or attempting to hold the US government legally responsible for someone else’s genocide is counterproductive at best.
By itself almost certainly not, but it’s rare for any one thing to change policy. Maybe something interesting comes out in court, or the government’s arguments make it look particularly bad. Probably not, but equally I doubt it’s going to backfire strongly.
I don’t know, man. It probably won’t backfire on the people bringing the suit, but it very easily could damage Biden at no expense to the pro-Israel wing. Which, in case anyone else reading this needs it to be said, would have even less desirable results regarding the ongoing genocide.
Put another way, if Biden ends up punished at the ballot box, pro-Israel voters are a MUCH larger bloc than us anti-Israel voters. The sad strategic answer of the next candidate will not be “Biden lost pro-Israel votes AND anti-Israel votes by stepping away from Israel; I had better step even further away in the hopes that it’ll be good enough for them this time!” it will be “Anti-Israel voters won’t help me if I step away from Israel, so it’s better to just go all-in on uncritical support for genocide to keep pro-Israel voters”.
When an official begins to step away from long-standing policy embedded deep into the institutions of government, the answer shouldn’t be to drag them for not stepping away far enough. It should be to emphasize that the move is good, and should be repeated.
Adolf Hitler was also just doing what the voters wanted right
Speaking of Weimar-era comparisons, don’t you have some “Liberals are social fascists; after Trump, us!” bullshit to peddle or something?