GAZA/JERUSALEM, Oct 24 (Reuters) - More than 700 Palestinians were killed in overnight Israeli air strikes, Gaza’s health ministry said on Tuesday, the highest 24-hour death toll since Israel began a bombing campaign to crush Hamas militants who stunned the country with a deadly Oct. 7 attack.
Israel said it had killed dozens of Hamas fighters in the overnight strikes on the besieged enclave but said its war to destroy the Islamist group would take time.
As aid agencies warned that a humanitarian catastrophe was unfolding in Gaza, French President Emmanuel Macron flew to Israel to offer it support.
These threads about the ongoing conflict recently have had me reflecting on Umberto Eco’s work “Ur-Fascism” as of late. Specifically the 14 common features he identified that are shared under fascist thought. The one I’ve been thinking about the most lately, as I read some of the grotesque things people are writing, is #8: The enemy is both weak and strong. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
But upon review I think that these other ones are worth reflecting on as well. I mean they all really are in the context of this crisis, but I found these to be the most striking.
#4: Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture, the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
#5: Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
#6: Appeal to social frustration. “[…] one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.
#7: The obsession with a plot. “The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia.”
#9: Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
#10: Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
edit: formatting
Netanyahu is on television saying he is proud to have killed more than 3 times as many civilians as Hamas.
If you support the israeli government you are a piece of shit. Period.
End Stage Capitalism is not fun.
Any day now
Which means probably about 350 of them were children.
Why the down vote? Average age in gaza is 19 (yes mean is not median but still). This means that you have a good chance that a large proportion of those killed were kids (and almost all weren’t of voting age last time gaza had an election).
Jsyk, this site puts median and mean age lower at 18 y/o which just makes Israel’s actions more abhorrent.
https://www.countryreports.org/country/GazaStrip/population.htm
This is the best summary I could come up with:
GAZA/JERUSALEM, Oct 24 (Reuters) - More than 700 Palestinians were killed in overnight Israeli air strikes, Gaza’s health ministry said on Tuesday, the highest 24-hour death toll since Israel began a bombing campaign to crush Hamas militants who stunned the country with a deadly Oct. 7 attack.
As aid agencies warned that a humanitarian catastrophe was unfolding in Gaza, French President Emmanuel Macron flew to Israel to offer it support.
Israeli tanks and troops are massed on the border between Israel and the enclave awaiting orders for an expected ground invasion - an operation that will be complicated by concerns over the hostages.
Wide areas of Gaza have been flattened by Israeli bombs with buildings reduced to piles of rubble and twisted metal, forcing more than one million residents to seek shelter elsewhere in the territory.
Israel shouldn’t be granted an unconditional green light and unrestricted authorisation to kill," Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al-Thani said in a speech to Gulf state’s Shura council.
“We are linked to Israel through mourning,” Macron said earlier on social media, saying that 30 French people were killed in the Oct. 7 attacks and nine were still missing or held hostage.
The original article contains 933 words, the summary contains 196 words. Saved 79%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
“gaza authorities” so Hamas
At this point I don’t even think they’re doing it out of hatred anymore. They’re just doing it for sport
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If you are anywhere in Gaza, you’re going to get fucked by Israel
If you stay inside the evacuated zone,
Assuming these people have a “choice” when their options are (1) stay and risk dying, (2) evacuate and risk dying, (3) be forced to be displaced in an attempt to ethnically cleans you and risk dying on the way or a shitty life with no opportunities and no citizenhood.
While all Isreal has to do is stop committing war crimes.
“Gaza officials” aka Hamas present us another fantastic number after rolling their dice. Want the bombings to stop? Release the hostages and surrender. But we all know Hamas gives no shit about the people or peace - just as all their friends and supporters.
It’s a bunch of doctors on the brick of collapse that report these numbers. You can stare at them in shock and disbelief all you want. The number is about to increase, many are missing under the rubble.
How many times in the past 20 years has a Palestinian Health Ministry reported numbers that have gone up?
This number has already dropped to 400: https://lemmy.world/post/7270667
Let’s assume the Ministry of Health is lying, what number of dead civilians is enough to condemn Israel of ethnic cleansing? People are dying at the hands of Israeli strikes in the most horrid ways, and everybody is denouncing it publicly as a war crime, and here we are calling them “liars” even though it’s a bunch of overworked medical staff and are running out of body bags. How many dead bodies do we need to see on TV for it to be a tragedy?
I strongly suspect they are providing an upper bound - based on the number of people who live in a particular residence and declaring them “dead” before actually finding a body or confirming they don’t have a pulse. So their numbers always look really high at first and get revised downwards as they move people from the “dead” count to “injured” or “found alive and well”. In many cases, you can observe that they will announce a large number of fatalities within minutes of a blast - faster than it’s feasible to even count the bodies much less confirm they are fully dead and not merely injured.
How many dead bodies do we need to see on TV for it to be a tragedy?
Context matters. Dead soldiers from an organization that recently committed terrorism and atrocities are not a tragedy. This is the expected outcome of war. There will be civilian fatalities who were in the wrong place or worse being held as human shields. Those civilian deaths are a tragedy, and the best way to prevent them is to strongly denounce Hamas.
Israel has been strongly denouncing Hamas for a while now and yet the number of bodies increase. Why do you think that’s the case?
The best way for us to prevent them is to strongly denounce Hamas. Take away their support and sympathy. Maybe they’ll release the hostages.
Gee don’t look too hard into how hamas got their funding
Yeah but it hasn’t been working, has it?
There’s a reason that article notes that they “could not independently verify the ministry figures.” They aren’t independent or apolitical. The Ministry of Health aren’t frontline doctors and nurses, they are the Hamas-controlled bureaucracy that oversees them. Hamas long ago purged anyone from the ministry that wasn’t specifically loyal to them.
Why do you think Hamas would work so hard to purge the Palestinians in the Ministry who were neutral or Fatah-aligned? Is there a compelling reason to think an institution designed to serve a party or faction to the exclusion of everyone else would (or could) serve anyone else?
The reason is that they are neutral and no one is allowed to Gaza (thanks to Israel) to verify this.
Anyway again it’s Frontline doctors and nurses who report these numbers.
The reason is that they’re a problematic source. Everyone’s also being much more cautious since the al-Ahli Arab Hospital blast because several major news organizations had to apologize for uncritically reporting Hamas/MoH claims that turned out to be false.
I’m sure first responders report numbers to the ministry but you’re wrong to think that they’re reporting to you. The voice that speaks through the ministry is Hamas. You’re taking it purely on faith that it’s otherwise, but it ain’t true just because you’d like it to be. I’m not sure Hamas has really earned your faith. They’re being widely reported because, as you said, there’s no one else in a position to report. But best-we-have doesn’t really mean good, does it? And it shouldn’t mean that we stop evaluating them critically as a source.
What a nonsense. Are those the same “doctors” who held a press conference among bodies on that destroyed parking lot that was supposed to be a “destroyed hospital”? They report whatever Hamas tells them to. There is no shock on my side - I’m sure many people have been killed and injured but reporting any number other than “many” is unverifiable BS.
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How many people, from a credible source that you trust, have died in this conflict? How do you gauge deaths in the Gaza strip?
Do the downvotes mean that there have been no deaths in the Gaza strip?
Didn’t downvote you but here’s my opinion: many people in Gaza have died. The number is high - any number is too high, regarding innocent civilians. But these headlines are created by a terrorist organization with the sole purpose of riling people up and pushing Hamas’ agenda against Israel. Aljazeera mindlessly regurgitating these numbers under the guise of “Gaza officials” is an idiotic farce.
How do we gauge the real numbers then? Ideally by 3rd parties providing numbers or verifying the claims but that takes time - if at all possible.
Right. I believe the UNRW doesn’t release any numbers other than direct UNRW casualties which they’ve had 17, because that would be political.
The Palestinian Red crescent society published statistics, looks like they’re part of the Red Cross internationally,are they sufficiently neutral? Probably not.
They claim 2,000 deaths they’ve directly dealt with, and 5,000 total deaths including sources other than their own organization.
It’s important to always contextualize data, the thing that I think angers a lot of people, is there’s a certain internet respondent that down plays data. I think it’s undeniable people are dying, the magnitude is important, the exact number less so.
It’s important to always contextualize data, the thing that I think angers a lot of people, is there’s a certain internet respondent that down plays data. I think it’s undeniable people are dying, the magnitude is important, the exact number less so.
I have not yet encountered people who downplay the amount of deaths but many who love to eat up the overblown numbers reported by Hamas and resort to violence in other countries.
Not believing random numbers Hamas puts out != downplaying deaths, but I’m hope you had at least fun gluing pictures together 👍
Unless you have the actual number at hand to dispute their number, i have no reason to believe otherwise and i have no reason to believe you aren’t downplaying the number because occam razor.
Why 700? Why not 701 or 698?! Gaza is controlled by Hamas. Gaza’s authorities are Hamas. Everything they say is blatantly false and only serves their purpose, which is to annihilate anyone who is not a Muslim. The fact that so-called news agencies use them as a source highlights the issues with the media in this day and age.
which is to annihilate anyone who is not a Muslim.
Then why are there churches and Christians in Gaza? 🤔
Shhhh, we’re trying to build a narrative here.
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Maybe instead of one side being paragons of honesty and one side lying religiously, they just both lie as and when they feel it benefits their cause?
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Bro there are literally Christians in Gaza.
Gaza is 99.8% Sunni Muslim. There are 2-3,000 Christians there. It is an ethno state for all practical purposes.
What does it say for the death toll that some of that .2% have already been killed by air strikes? Some even in their places of worship.
Just here correcting fake facts. Have all the sympathy in the world for the victims of war mongering religious conservatism.
I continue to just have sympathy for humans regardless
Yeah, same
Again I will say that I think you think that ethnostate means a country with a majority of one group of people…
Israel is an ethnostate because their constitution means that anyone who is not a Jew is a second class citizen if a citizen at all, and only Jews are allowed to be citizens.
Gaza has a majortiy of Muslims but never rejected “citizenship” to Jews or Christians. This is not the same as an ethno state.
For the love of fuck use Google before saying nonsense. Just because the word sounds like it means this, it doesn’t.
Israel is akin to Nazi Germany in its ethnostate-ness. Hope that makes it clear now.
I’m not sure this is correct in respect to Gaza.
The requirements for citizenship under pre-hamas in Gaza is your father must be an Palestinian Arab. There is no naturalization process that allows you to bypass this requirement. That is the definition of an ethnostate.
While I can’t find any record on if Hamas changed the law, I highly doubt they did considering their political stance.
Citizenship requires that you are a country. Israel has taken that away from Palestinians decades ago.
Do you understand what ethnostate means?
Yeah do you? Even North Korea isn’t 100%. Not about to argue absolutist definitions in the real world with an internet edgelord.
how do you define an ethnostate?
