- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17618684
Forced arbitration means any legal disputes you may have with Discord must be resolved through a single third party mediator, who 99% of the time is chosen by, and will rule in favor of, the corporation/Discord. This effectively removes all your legal rights as a consumer, because arbitration decisions are legally binding and non-appealable.
The new ToS goes into effect April 15th, 2024.
YOU CAN OPT OUT OF ARBITRATION. You must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com BEFORE MAY 15TH (30 days after ToS effective date) with your username stating that you wish to opt out of the arbitration clause. Once May 15th passes you are bound to arbitration with Discord forever.
Opt-out before it’s too late.
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Settling disputes between you and Discord
Informal resolution. Most disputes can be resolved informally, so if you have an issue with the services, you agree to reach out to us before initiating a lawsuit or arbitration. This requires emailing disputes@discordapp.com written notice (‘Written Notice’), which must include: (1) your name; (2) the email address or phone number associated with your Discord account; (3) a detailed description of the issue, and (4) how you’d like to resolve it. If the dispute is not resolved within sixty (60) days after receipt of the Written Notice, you and Discord agree to resolve any remaining dispute through further informal discussions or one of the formal dispute resolution provisions below. You must engage in this informal resolution process before starting any formal dispute resolution unless exempted by law. Applicable statutes of limitations and due dates for arbitration filing fees or other deadlines will be tolled upon receipt of the Written Notice to disputes@discordapp.com, while the parties attempt informal resolution.
If you reside in the European Union, you may also be entitled to submit your complaint to the European Commission’s Online Dispute Resolution (ODR) Platform or the Out-of-Court Dispute Settlement (‘OCDS’) mechanism under DSA Article 21. ODR allows EU consumers to resolve disputes related to the online purchases of goods and services without going to court. Note that a submission to the ODR or via the OCDS mechanism alone, without submitting a Written Notice to disputes@discordapp.com, will not toll the applicable statutes of limitations or other deadlines.
Governing law and jurisdiction. The Federal Arbitration Act, federal arbitration law, and California law will apply to these terms and any disputes related to these terms or our services, regardless of conflict of laws rules. Any dispute that is not subject to arbitration will be resolved exclusively in the state or federal courts in San Francisco County, California, and you and Discord both consent to venue and personal jurisdiction in these courts.
If you are a consumer who resides in the European Union, this clause and these These conditions generally do not affect any mandatory consumer rights you may have under your local law, and all disputes arising in connection with the services or these conditions shall be subject to the exclusive jurisdiction of the court of Amsterdam (The Netherlands) or, if you are a consumer, to the closest court to your home if you are in a state member of the Europan Union.
THIS. Now, next time anyone posts something, think a little bit more about the rest of the world, because we exist too. US is not the only place here.
I wish people paid more attention to Asia as well haha. At least y’all get mentioned.
Wait I already opted out of arbitration 5 or 6 years ago do I need to do it again?
Welp, killed the account.
Honestly, I wasn’t getting much value out of it, so it made sense.
Given that their mediation is binding to discord too, depending on the mediator, it can be a good thing for customers too.
When I opt out, do they delete or lock my account?
No, not according to the current wording of the ToS. It only removes you from the arbitration requirement, but still retains all other sections of the ToS and allows you to keep your account.
If they do choose to terminate you, it will make for a very interesting PR news cycle for them.
Opting out may be the safe way. But I have to wonder if that clause would be binding. ToS can’t overrule law.
Is this opt-out applicable to EU/UK users?
No. United States citizens only. Because we don’t have a functioning legal system here.
It would be wise to put in the post title whether a piece of news applies worldwide or US-wide, because some of us aren’t good guessers.
US doesn’t know Rest-of-the-World exists.
lemmywithout.us then, I guess.
Relevant instructions:
Opt-out. You can decline this agreement to arbitrate by emailing an opt-out notice to arbitration-opt-out<at>discord.com within 30 days of April 15, 2024 or when you first register your Discord account, whichever is later
I had to ask bing copilot how to write the opt out email. Here’s a template for everyone to use.
Subject: Opt-Out of Discord Arbitration Clause Dear Discord Legal Team, I am writing to formally opt out of the arbitration clause outlined in your Terms of Service. I do not wish to be bound by the arbitration provisions. Please confirm my opt-out status via email. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely, [Your Full Name] [Your Discord Username]Citing the username alone should be enough. The email address is explicitly named for this use case only.
There is also a template on github. https://github.com/lynnpepin/arbitration-opt-out-templates/tree/main/Discord
Why did you have to ask copilot to write that simple email…?
wHy dId yOu hAvE tO aSk cOpIlOt tO wRiTe tHaT sImPlE eMaIl…?
fixed iT for yOu
Yes but No. For most people writing this kind of mail should not be a problem. However, for many different reasons it can become difficult to write such things: This mail is some kind of formal letter and alters a contract. Let’s imagine someone with a learning disability, they may be able to sign up for a online service, as they have done it many times. Writing a formal letter they may not have done many times and they cannot map past experiences the same way as a neurotypical person.
Depending on the local law this may be a reason why forced arbitration has to be opt-in: Typically the law should protect the weaker party. As the barrier for writing this letter is higher than the sign-up process, there is an argument that the chosen opt-out process of discord is targeted against some of their weakest customers.
No this is pretty basic adult functioning.
In short, I don’t write formal documents often in my role as a software engineer.
There are any number of ways that an opt-out message could be too ambiguous to be legally interpreted. For example, if you just send the message saying “no thanks, I don’t want to use arbitration”, but forget to identify yourself in a way that is meaningful to the other party, it may not hold up in any proceedings.
For example, either your legal name or username may be required, or both, depending on whether you need to prove you are/were a user at the time of opt-out.
Specifying the confirmation is helpful as well in a normal document that someone reads.
Several other companies have made opt outs that you have to send paper mail for as a way to raise the barrier of rejection.
People are lazy. I am lazy. I asked a resource to do it for me and shared the results to help others like me. This helps reduce the barrier to people who would like to opt out but can’t be bothered to figure out how to write that email.
Of course they do, anything to make it worse lmao
I smell Discord about to do a Reddit thing.
This seems like an unreasonable provision that wouldn’t hold up in court. Companies put all kinds of unenforceable shit in their contracts.
It’s perfectly enforceable in the US. Almost every corporation uses arbitration now, because handpicked arbitrators rule in favor of the corporations 99% of the time. All completely outside of the public legal system, all completely secret, all completely legal and allowed.
Is there any case law of people fighting them and a court determining their enforceability?
Citation?
