Even Lemmygrad says there were 300 deaths. I really can’t find anyone saying it straight up didn’t happen, not even the CPC itself. The closest is saying that the massacre happened outside the square, which seems more of a technicality that both “sides” rely on to pretend the other is making stuff up. Ie, Lemmygrad claiming others know nothing because there was no massacre on the square itself and it all happened outside, while others see that as outright denial.
Lemmygrad also believes it was CIA-backed and turned a pro-Maoist, anti-Dengist protest into an anti-Maoist, anti-Dengist, pro-Liberal Democracy/Capitalist protest, which I would say ultimately doesn’t change that protestors were murdered even if that was true.
I think it’s helpful to see what people are actually saying, you can better argue it to be an atrocity that way. For example, as above, even if it was steered in a different direction by western forces, it still had popular support and as such was still an unjust escalation of force into massacre.
Interestingly, and having done a bit of extra reading, the current Western position is that the killings didn’t actually happen in the square itself, but in the surrounding streets as the army was pushing through Beijing to reach Tiananmen Square. Some of the initial reports that came out were evidently erroneous. Again, that’s internal communications in the USA acknowledging that. But still very awful and hundreds of people killed according to that version of events.
Yes. They try and minimize it as much as they possibly can. I’ve seem them claim on here that nobody was killed and that nothing happened at Tiananmen square.
Still they give counterfactual assertions the same way Trump supporters give counter factual assertions about their lame coup attempt on Jan. 6. “It was a secret plot by someone else!!”
I’ll never understand how the tankies can claim it never happened when there’s so many pictures like this available.
Even Lemmygrad says there were 300 deaths. I really can’t find anyone saying it straight up didn’t happen, not even the CPC itself. The closest is saying that the massacre happened outside the square, which seems more of a technicality that both “sides” rely on to pretend the other is making stuff up. Ie, Lemmygrad claiming others know nothing because there was no massacre on the square itself and it all happened outside, while others see that as outright denial.
Lemmygrad also believes it was CIA-backed and turned a pro-Maoist, anti-Dengist protest into an anti-Maoist, anti-Dengist, pro-Liberal Democracy/Capitalist protest, which I would say ultimately doesn’t change that protestors were murdered even if that was true.
I think it’s helpful to see what people are actually saying, you can better argue it to be an atrocity that way. For example, as above, even if it was steered in a different direction by western forces, it still had popular support and as such was still an unjust escalation of force into massacre.
The massacre is undeniable.
Interestingly, and having done a bit of extra reading, the current Western position is that the killings didn’t actually happen in the square itself, but in the surrounding streets as the army was pushing through Beijing to reach Tiananmen Square. Some of the initial reports that came out were evidently erroneous. Again, that’s internal communications in the USA acknowledging that. But still very awful and hundreds of people killed according to that version of events.
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Yes. They try and minimize it as much as they possibly can. I’ve seem them claim on here that nobody was killed and that nothing happened at Tiananmen square.
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So because you haven’t personally seen it yourself it didn’t happen? Ok.
So because you have seen it but don’t have proof it still totally happened?
You say it like it’s the typical response though, essentially zero people believe nothing at all happened.
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Still they give counterfactual assertions the same way Trump supporters give counter factual assertions about their lame coup attempt on Jan. 6. “It was a secret plot by someone else!!”