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Cake day: June 11th, 2023

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  • That depends what you mean by “Israel”. I don’t think it can be an exclusively Jewish ethnostate. That means excluding Palestinians who have equal claims to the territory and I don’t see how that can lead to anything but oppression and further cycles of violence.

    But sure it can exist as a state. They just can’t do military occupation etc.


  • Oh but we can definitely sketch something, for sure.

    • There has to be some degree of truth and reconciliation, and that will not look like “and all the bad people get punished forever”. There’s plenty of sides and plenty of atrocities and people have to somehow get over them. That’s fucking hard and will take generations, but it’s been done before and it can be done again.
    • Israel will, technically, have to give up the most. They’re occupying territory in explicit violation of international law, for starters, but they also have a lot more resources generally. Not to mention their export industry in arms, including anti-riot stuff, surveillance tech etc that they explicitly test on their simmering conflict next door. The only way this happens realistically is when the current Israeli line loses national and international support.
    • there has to be an expansion of practical rights of Palestinians, and probably in the end a one-state solution where they become Israeli citizens (in a country probably not called Israel anymore) and have equal rights, including voting rights. But at the very least the blockade of Gaza has to end, and Palestinians need the same access to wealth, education, etc as Israelis. Otherwise that’s perfect conditions for resentment that will only get worse.
    • this is a special case of the first bullet point, but Palestinians who were driven from their homes during the establishment of Israel will also need some degree of economic compensation for that, and ideally the ability to move back to where they were originally living

    The both sides attitude is unhelpful. Israelis and Palestinians, in and out of Gaza, all have equal rights to safety, security and a life worth living. Israelis have the right to freedom of movement and not getting bombed, and so do Palestinians.