• GBU_28@lemm.ee
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    8 months ago

    Consumer debt and national debt are entirely different

    • waigl@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      National debt is basically where money comes from in the first place. Unless you are willing to change the most fundamental, basic nature of how modern money even works, you cannot run a (major) country without debt. It’s not even just a question of good or bad fiscal policy, it is literally mathematically impossible.

      • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        The US was on track to becoming debt free by 2030 under Clinton in 1999. Then Bush was elected and dramatically increased spending while simultaneously giving tax cuts.

        • Shiggles@sh.itjust.works
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          8 months ago

          https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/andrew-jackson-national-debt-reaches-zero-dollars

          TLDR: the last time someone that didn’t understand economics paid off the national debt, it didn’t end well.

          If there is a finite amount of money you can print before suffering the effects of inflation, deficit spending allows you to increase the amount of money in circulation without just printing more. If I owe you 100 trillion dollars, you owe Japan 100 trillion dollars, and Japan owes me 100 trillion dollars, this is good for the economy. Yes, it probably sounds like voodoo magic. No, I’m not qualified to help with that.

          Now, there is still an upper limit on how much debt is okay, generally tied to interest rates. We’re beginning to scratch that upper limit thanks to deficit spending during covid, but it’s by no means problematic and things would overall probably have been worse without the extra spending.

        • karashta@kbin.melroy.org
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          8 months ago

          Except a nation with no debt and a negative trade balance has negative wealth.

          The government debt is the private sector surplus when there a negative trade balance.

          The government is literally the source of money. Every dollar created is part of that “debt”.

          Every dollar is an IOU issued by the federal government that it will be accepted to relieve tax obligations.

          " Zero national debt " means zero dollars left in circulation after taxation.

          • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Except a nation with no debt and a negative trade balance has negative wealth.

            You can’t sneak negative trade balance into an argument about public debt.

            A nation with no debt has the ability to take on more debt than if it already has debt.

            " Zero national debt " means zero dollars left in circulation after taxation.

            You can have debt for circulation while maintaining a net surplus in all accounts. For example Norway has a per capita debt of $42k USD while maintaining a surplus of $295k USD per capita.

            It’s similar to how a company like Apple holds debt of $108 B USD while maintaining a $162 B USD surplus.