Kalingrad gonna kalingrad.
Have they not renamed it to Putingrad yet?
Sounds more like an Israeli tactic
This has been happening on and off for months in Lebanon, the pilots have all been landing without GPS lately in case it cuts out again while they’re mid-landing. Utter chaos when it first happened, delivery drivers especially were very lost, and people in general had a tough time dealing with the loss of GPS. We don’t have a rigorous address system so sending locations to each other’s phones is really important here.
I think “sounds more like” is a weird thing to say though for this kind of thing
Whys it a weird thing to say, they’ve been known to do it
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Do your handlers even allow you to call it war?
Sooooo…if one of these crashes, wouldn’t that be considered an act of war and trigger Article 5?
Shouldn’t this already be an act of war? They are attempting to cause crashes outright.
MH17 was shot down by a Russian Buk system given to the separatists, and likely with polite green ‘advisors’ nearby to set up and operate the SAM. Once they realized their fuckup they rushed it across the Donbas and back to Russia, but it was spotted several times en route both ways.
If that didn’t count, why would much harder to prove jamming trigger A5? NATO forces (yes, even Poland) are not risking escalation on their territory, even if that means Russian helicopters and cruise missiles can ‘temporarily get lost’ in NATO airspace.
They already shot down a civilian plane in 2014, killing hundreds of people, including many citizens of NATO countries
Seems they got form. In 1983, they also shot down a civilian Boeing 747.
So, first off. There is no reason for GPS jamming to cause a crash. Modern airliners have other ways to navigate.
Now it is possible to target a single aircraft with GPS “spoofing” potentially, but both GPS and Galileo have ways round this (Navigation Message Authentication). I would like to think aircraft navigation systems should be using this system. But, even if not, I’d bet it’s still quite hard to reliably spoof a specific location to a moving aircraft.
War and peace aren’t that simple. Russia already shot a passenger plane down and nothing happened.
Fucking wild that I forgot about that. So much bullshit has gone on since then that it got pushed to the bottom, I guess. Should have been an assstomping on Crimea right then and there.
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Plenty of heads of state have met justice and Putin is no different. Humanity is moving toward a more just world.
if one of these crashes, wouldn’t that be considered an act of war and trigger Article 5?
Article 5 is, ultimately, triggered by action within the EU. If Europeans want to treat this as another Boeing nosedive rather than a military action, they’ll wave it away.
As it stands, Vlad has been growing support within Southern European parliaments - Italy, Greece, France, Spain - and that might make invoking Article 5 more difficult than pointing at a downed airliner and proclaiming “Russia did this”.
Yeah, in Spain not really, not sure were you get that from
Unidas Podemos has bucked the current government position and sided against NATO on a number of legislative votes.
I’m gonna copypaste what I said in another reply to my comment (because I think it applies):
Not being in support of Ukraine is not the same as being in support of Vlad. Not at all. The only ones that MIGHT be pro Vlad, and I am not 100% sure of their position, are Vox.
There are a million reasons not to meddlr in these external affairs. Veing anti-war, our country not being precisely well economically, recognizing Ukraine is neither on NATO nor the EU, so interfering is riskier.
Global morals are all good and well, but the representatives should look for the well being of their voters, not everyone in the Globe.
Not saying they should say “fuck Ukraine”, we have received a lot of Ukrainian refugees in Spain. But that doesn’t mean we should get involved in their war.
Not being in support of Ukraine is not the same as being in support of Vlad.
I agree in theory. But, in practice, not supporting Ukraine against Russia is a bit like not supporting Biden against Trump. To use an old Bushism, “You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists.”
Global morals are all good and well, but the representatives should look for the well being of their voters, not everyone in the Globe.
The counterargument in favor of supporting the Ukrainian side of the war is that Russia is an existential threat to Europe. And, to borrow another Bushism, “We need to fight them over there so we’re not fighting them over here.”
Not saying they should say “fuck Ukraine”, we have received a lot of Ukrainian refugees in Spain.
I agree here wholeheartedly. The first and foremost mission of any serious relief effort should be refugee relief and resettlement. But that’s another thing the pro-war wings of big western states tend to be against. For all their hawkishness, the British and Americans have been the most stingy when it comes to absorbing refugees. Meanwhile, the more peacenik members of the EU - your Polands and Hungarys and Romanias - are taking on the lion’s share.
He wanted to write Germany, but switched to Spain so he could complain about south europe
PSOE might be in support of Ukraine, but some of it’s allies are not. That’s the only thing I can imagine.
Not being in support of Ukraine is not the same as being in support of Vlad. Not at all. The only ones that MIGHT be pro Vlad, and I am not 100% sure of their position, are Vox.
There are a million reasons not to meddlr in these external affairs. Veing anti-war, our country not being precisely well economically, recognizing Ukraine is neither on NATO nor the EU, so interfering is riskier.
Global morals are all good and well, but the representatives should look for the well being of their voters, not everyone in the Globe.
Not saying they should say “fuck Ukraine”, we have received a lot of Ukrainian refugees in Spain. But that doesn’t mean we should get involved in their war.
Ukraine alone can’t face Russia, nobody disagrees with that. Russia doesn’t need support to win, they only need Ukraine to not have. You can’t be really neutral if the conflict is so uneven.
Wether you like it or not, inaction is support for Russia. Right after the first attack some independents in Spain, the ones constantly asking for international sorry support, said we should not get involved in Russia’s invasion, which is ironic to say the least and very suspicious. This isn’t only Vox, a lot of the left (
I’m also not sure it’s on our best interest, economical or otherwise, to let Russia gobble up Ukraine and all it’s natural resources. Even from a completely selfish point of view, Russia controlling all of Ukraine is also risky.
I just want to note here that airliners do not rely solely on GPS for navigation, in fact GPS is usually just one form of backup for navigation instructions received from air traffic controllers.
That’s only true around landing and takeoff. For the most part their navigation relies on hybridized data from their inertial, air data and GPS, with several redundancies in place for bad readings and cumulative errors. Among all of this autonomous measurement apparatus, the GPS is the only part that doesn’t require numeric integration from speed or acceleration data to yield a position reading, and thus it is the only one that doesn’t drift over time. It’s actually fairly important, and it’s why using the gnss jammers you can find on amazon is super illegal
Among all of this autonomous measurement apparatus, the GPS is the only part that doesn’t require numeric integration from speed or acceleration data to yield a position reading
My point is that in the airspace we’re talking about, GPS is not the only source of accurate positional information. ATC radars and transponders can and do provide reliable position information all over that area, and it is ATC that’s responsible for routing and separation in those specific airspaces, not the pilots. ADS-B does rely on GPS, that’s true, so if there was a complete outage of GPS in an area, that might mean delays due to additional separation requirements, as ATC won’t get accurate secondary information back from the airliners’ GPS units.
All I’m saying is that while losing GPS would be a bother, European flight control won’t start losing airliners and as a pilot you won’t end up in Malmö instead of Helsinki just because GPS is down. Worst case scenario is congestion and delays at the destination airport, and possible diversions because of that.
This affects particularly small airfields that don’t have tower operations. Because they rely on GPS-based systems. The larger airports have backup systems in place.
