I do no such thing. You do not speak for me and neither does OP.
I do no such thing. You do not speak for me and neither does OP.
I wasn’t suggesting a leaf feels pain or that it would be the leaf that would have some definition of pain and suffering if it were ripped from the stem. It would be the rest of the plant.
So why are you bringing up a part that, when separated from the whole, no longer has that capacity in any living thing?
Specific knowledge? My whole point here is that there isn’t enough knowledge. Why do I need specific knowledge to say “this field is changing by the day and we keep learning plants are able to do all sorts of things we thought you needed a nervous system for, so it is not inconceivable that plants feel pain?”
You do know that I have never made the claim that plants definitely do feel pain, right? I never even claimed that they feel pain the same way an animal does. I even suggested that what they would feel could be described as pain even though it wasn’t the sort of thing we would anthropogenically think of as pain because we do not have good definitions for the concept of pain or the concept of suffering.
I’m not sure why I need to repeat myself like this when I made all of this clear in my initial post.
I was so confused by their comment that I totally misread it. Not only are they saying that most people wouldn’t change a baby’s diaper in public, but that it isn’t necessary sometimes. Like there’s always a place to do it discreetly when they’ve just had an explosion?
You are asking me to sum up the entire science of plant cognition in such a brief window that I might as well have Wikipedia do it for me.
Damaged plants can send out signals to other plants, and chemicals to repel what is damaging them (to the specific area where the damage is being done) and repair their damage. Some plants will avoid growing towards areas that they have been unable to thrive in before.
You still seem to be talking about things from a purely human perspective. Dogs will damage their feet and not even let you know sometimes. They will get a piece of glass in their foot and they won’t stop walking on them or try to do anything about it until they literally can’t do anything about it. My dog tore her CCL and the only reason we knew anything was wrong was that she wasn’t limping and then she was a few moments later. She didn’t make a sound, she didn’t react with any sort of signal that indicated that she was aware serious damage had been done to her, she just was unable to use that leg. Are you going to argue that she felt no pain?
Fascists? Enriching themselves at the expense of the state? This happens?!
But trees or mosses or whatever do none of this. A tree will keep trying to grow towards a fence that damages branches in a storm, a tree never starves itself to death making thicker bark after teens carve lovehearts into it, a tree doesn’t stop reproducing after 3 droughts kill all its children and so on. Leaves might change colour in response to periods of high or low sunlight but these changes are like tanning, they don’t modify anything about how the tree trees.
I don’t know why any of this means that our nebulous definitions of ‘pain’ and ‘suffering’ cannot apply to plants.
If I stub my toe, it doesn’t modify anything about how I human. But it hurts.
So you acknowledge that I would, in fact, expose my child naked in public. And with good reason. And everyone could see her genitalia when I did.
Edit: Oh, sorry, misread. You think you can always make it to a bathroom? You have never had a baby.
But what I am arguing is that is an anthropocentric view of what constitutes pain and suffering. We cannot assume either is not possible without a nervous system. It’s worth at least looking into the concept even though we don’t know that there would be a mechanism simply based on what we know about plants so far. I myself would put myself on the no side when it comes to whether or not plants feel pain, but I couldn’t say that it was a 100% definite no by any means and I think we may feel very differently about what it means to be a plant and what plants are capable of in 20 years.
You wouldn’t expose your child naked in public,
How exactly do you think someone changes a diaper at a park?
What you got from my post and what I actually said have already been established to be very distant from one another.
And, again, I am not the one trying to debate anything here despite you accusing me of it.
I wasn’t trying to make up any sort of debate. You are the one trying to debate here. And you’re not doing it very well either.
You still seem to think I’m justifying eating meat when I still don’t eat meat.
Fallacy
A (potentially) thinking or feeling plant has to be killed in order to eat it just like an animal has to be killed, and there’s no difference between the two.
Did you not read what I wrote? I made it very clear that there were a lot of differences.
And the fun part is that you’re the second person to tell me that I was trying to justify eating meat when, again, the first four words of my post are “I don’t eat meat.” I couldn’t have been more clear on that point.
The Poo Tomb of the Wombat Pharaoh.
Wait, stackable? Do they build a wall out of their poo?
No. Sadly for both you and my daughter, you have to be Australian.
I just wouldn’t want to have to explain such a thing to a toddler.
Until you stop insisting that an amputated hand is equivalent to an entire plant, this is a ridiculous discussion.
Plants are alive. Amputated hands are not. Those are facts you can’t seem to accept.