Python is memory safe? Can’t you access/address memory with C bindings?

  • Dark Arc@social.packetloss.gg
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    ·
    8 months ago

    Python is memory safe? Can’t you access/address memory with C bindings?

    You can do that in basically any language. Rust even has the ability to break out of its safeguards and write unsafe Rust code.

    “Memory safety” in this context is more about the defaults and how easy it is to write unsafe code accidentally.

    • Traister101@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      8 months ago

      Unsafe Rust really just let’s you play with pointers

      This is the entirety of what Unsafe Rust allows

      • Dereference a raw pointer
      • Call an unsafe function or method
      • Access or modify a mutable static variable
      • Implement an unsafe trait
      • Access fields of unions
      • Ryan@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        I’m still onboard with rust as being better than C, however…

        My understanding is that it is considerably harder to correctly write unsafe rust than it is to correctly write c, because if you accidentally violate any of safe rust’s guaranteed invariants in an unsafe block, things go bananas.

        • Traister101@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          8 months ago

          Yes Rust is harder to write than C, that’s basically by design as it’s due to the statically guaranteed memory safety. That’s pretty magical. C doesn’t have that and neither does C++ even with smart pointers and such. Rusts unsafe keyword is poorly named, what it actually does is tell the compiler that you the programmer guarantee Rusts rules are upheld within the unsafe block.

          For example

          Access or modify a mutable static variable

          That is a global, that’s incredibly hard to impossible to statically prove it’s safely done, so you have to do it in an unsafe block. So you violating Rusts rules within an unsafe block is actually using the unsafe block wrong. That’s not what it’s for

          • Fal@yiffit.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            Yes Rust is harder to write than C

            I would totally argue with this. Rust is way easier to write than C

            • vext01@lemmy.sdf.org
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              8 months ago

              I agree for the most part, but writing data structures with shared mutable state can be a total pain in Rust.

              • Fal@yiffit.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                How so? That’s like, the thing that makes rust awesome to write.

                • vext01@lemmy.sdf.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  It’s hard to get those kinds of data structures through the borrow checker.

                  Try writing a doubly linked list.

                  • Fal@yiffit.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    It’s because it’s hard to make them correct. It’s not any harder to write it in rust than in C. Just C lets you do it wrong

            • Traister101@lemmy.today
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              8 months ago

              I’d probably say it depends but I’m no Rust expert and I have no direct experience with C (though quite familiar with C++).

              Basically I’d expect writing C to be easy, but not safe. IE you can quickly and easily write C that compiles but has runtime issues. Rust for the most part will catch everything but logic issues during/before compilation meaning once the program runs you’ll have very high confidence in it’s runtime behavior leading to time spent “fighting the compiler” instead of figuring out wtf is going wrong at runtime.

              • Fal@yiffit.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                IE you can quickly and easily write C that compiles but has runtime issues.

                So what’s “easy” about it then? Just getting something to compile? That’s not a very good measure of “easyness”.