Yes but see, if we just sit on our hands and don’t vote we won’t have any responsibility for what follows! Only voting for someone who is less than ideal on this issue is a morally bad choice!
I totally understand the point most of them are trying to make and agree with the sentiment, but they’re fucking morons. 100% absolute jibbering idiots.
This is an ugly binary choice here because the United States electoral system is a steaming pile of horse shit. Do what I, your friendly neighborhood lefty, am doing and swallow your pride and vote for center right Joe Biden because he’s leagues better than the dementia-addled, fascist Cheeto Benito. Then take all the disgust you’ve built up by voting for and living with another neoliberal corporate shill presidency and work your ass off to make sure we don’t have to keep voting between Dumb and Dumber every fucking election.
Do it because we’ll only be gently tiptoeing to the right under a Biden presidency, so it’s less likely you’ll end up in jail for discussing the “wrong” political ideology while that orange shitstained merkin would have me in jail just for writing this were it up to him. Don’t make it up to him.
So you’re saying if I vote, I’ll be complicit and won’t have anything to complain or blame others about, and have to take responsibility for the consequence of my vote? Fuck that shit!
I don’t think I said that. Can you show me where I did?
I will say that you have a slice of responsibility over the future, and you’ll have to live with the consequences of whatever decision you end up making - including the one where you sit on your hands. No matter what you do, you can still complain about it, but the future will be whichever one we collectively steer to. One of those possible futures is worse than the other. So it seems to me that we should steer away from it, rather than wrong our hands about how we don’t like the choices. Sure, you don’t like the choices. They’re the choices regardless. Model the outcomes of each possibility, decide which one you hate the least and steer towards it, because we are getting a future selected from among the possibilities. Jesus is not going to rapture us out of this.
Forgot the /s. But the kids seem to believe that sitting it out in protest is better than voting the lesser of 2 evils. This is how a dictator comes into power. Agree with everything you said.
Yeah, I’ve been having this argument a lot lately, so the sarcasm shit right past me. It’s exhausting trying to get people to understand that no, really, genocide a * 3 plus additional genocide b is worse than genocide a alone.
Yes. Humans are given to certainty and judgement in excess of what the evidence merits, so I have taken to understatement.
I’m not convinced that Joe Biden is fascism, though. Would you be so kind as to compare him to Umberto eco’s list, and share examples on each point? Trump seems like a much better match to that, but perhaps I have missed something.
Not really. I’m in Northern Ireland and my vote does fuck all to affect who’s elected UK Prime Minister. The current governing party runs candidates here but they’ve never won a seat and their closest competitors don’t run any candidates at all here. Never mind I live in a stronghold seat so it won’t change anyway.
The Democratic party expects their members to pretend that what’s happening in Gaza is not a genocide. They censured Rep Tlaib for saying so in Congress.
If you’re wonder why it seems like no one takes you seriously, it’s the “gEnoCiDe jOe” thing. It’s just as cringy as “Let’S gO bRaNdOn! but with the added take that it’s coming for a group of people that should know better.
Nah… while you’re dead, they’ll just use your last address of residency and full name to cast your vote for you. You can enjoy staying in the grave-slumber.
Legally, the U.S. can’t cut Israel off completely. Since 2008, the U.S. has had to weigh all arms sales to Israel and other countries in the region against the requirement that Israel maintains a “qualitative military edge” against all enemies, both state and non-state actors.
In 2008, George W. Bush was in his second term as president.
Yes, Bush was the president for most of 2008. Obama got a short portion, although the exact president in place doesn’t necessarily tell you if they agreed anyway. Since president’s don’t really write law, I was looking for the exact law to see the history of which representatives were pushing it. I wanted to see what the angle was for that piece of the bill and what else was attached to it. Nothing gets passed as an individual law, meaning it was probably a rider in a much larger group of laws that likely made it a non-negotiable requirement bundled into a more pressing matter.
But I guess 9+ people read my simple question as total contempt for the situation.
Yeah, those stupid kids should just realize that one constant in America is that we kill or enable the killing of children. They should just accept that children will be killed in their name and get over themselves like us grown ups.
Propagandists are so funny. It’s like…. You make shit up that can’t be proven, verified, or is otherwise even remotely realistic, and then you pretend it’s real to the point that you’re willing to argue it online with total strangers.
Talking to reporters, Haley was unapologetic, criticising Joe Biden’s administration for temporarily withholding weapons as a means of discouraging an Israeli attack on the southern Gaza city of Rafah, and aiming barbs at the international criminal court (ICC) – which is seeking Netanyahu’s arrest – and the international court of justice (ICJ), which is considering charges of genocide against Israel.
“What America needs to understand is if Israel’s fighting our enemies, how can we not help them,” said Haley, whose missile message also carried the words “America loves Israel”.
“The sure way to not help Israel is to withhold weapons. The sure way to not help Israel is to praise the ICC, the ICJ or any of those that are condemning Israel instead of condemning what happens.
“America needs to do whatever Israel needs and stop telling them how to fight this war. You are either a friend or not a friend.”
The point might actually be to sink Biden’s approval rating so low that he’s forced to reverse course on the specific thing making him unpopular and less likely to win.
I’m not defending Biden, but the view that Trump would be any less prepared to keep sending Israel weapons is utterly baseless. He wouldn’t even pretend to care about the Palestinians, for one thing.
Lol. This is the party they want to replace ‘genocide joe’ with. Well done, kids!
Yes but see, if we just sit on our hands and don’t vote we won’t have any responsibility for what follows! Only voting for someone who is less than ideal on this issue is a morally bad choice!
I totally understand the point most of them are trying to make and agree with the sentiment, but they’re fucking morons. 100% absolute jibbering idiots.
This is an ugly binary choice here because the United States electoral system is a steaming pile of horse shit. Do what I, your friendly neighborhood lefty, am doing and swallow your pride and vote for center right Joe Biden because he’s leagues better than the dementia-addled, fascist Cheeto Benito. Then take all the disgust you’ve built up by voting for and living with another neoliberal corporate shill presidency and work your ass off to make sure we don’t have to keep voting between Dumb and Dumber every fucking election.
Do it because we’ll only be gently tiptoeing to the right under a Biden presidency, so it’s less likely you’ll end up in jail for discussing the “wrong” political ideology while that orange shitstained merkin would have me in jail just for writing this were it up to him. Don’t make it up to him.
I would like to solve your trolley problem with multi track drifting please
That’s only worked a handful of times, long ago.
So you’re saying if I vote, I’ll be complicit and won’t have anything to complain or blame others about, and have to take responsibility for the consequence of my vote? Fuck that shit!
I don’t think I said that. Can you show me where I did?
I will say that you have a slice of responsibility over the future, and you’ll have to live with the consequences of whatever decision you end up making - including the one where you sit on your hands. No matter what you do, you can still complain about it, but the future will be whichever one we collectively steer to. One of those possible futures is worse than the other. So it seems to me that we should steer away from it, rather than wrong our hands about how we don’t like the choices. Sure, you don’t like the choices. They’re the choices regardless. Model the outcomes of each possibility, decide which one you hate the least and steer towards it, because we are getting a future selected from among the possibilities. Jesus is not going to rapture us out of this.
Forgot the /s. But the kids seem to believe that sitting it out in protest is better than voting the lesser of 2 evils. This is how a dictator comes into power. Agree with everything you said.
Yeah, I’ve been having this argument a lot lately, so the sarcasm shit right past me. It’s exhausting trying to get people to understand that no, really, genocide a * 3 plus additional genocide b is worse than genocide a alone.
You do realize that “less than ideal” is probably an inadequate way to describe Joe funding a genocidal apartheid, right?
It’s astonishing to me how comfortable you are with fascism, provided it wears a blue jersey.
Yes. Humans are given to certainty and judgement in excess of what the evidence merits, so I have taken to understatement.
I’m not convinced that Joe Biden is fascism, though. Would you be so kind as to compare him to Umberto eco’s list, and share examples on each point? Trump seems like a much better match to that, but perhaps I have missed something.
I’m gonna vote for Biden if I have to rise from the dead and crawl through broken glass to do so, and I hope everyone reading this thread does.
I’m not willing to pretend he’s not facilitating an ongoing genocide though.
Truth. Unfortunately. Brandon 2024.
I’m not.
I’m not American nor in the US.
Lucky you lol
Not really. I’m in Northern Ireland and my vote does fuck all to affect who’s elected UK Prime Minister. The current governing party runs candidates here but they’ve never won a seat and their closest competitors don’t run any candidates at all here. Never mind I live in a stronghold seat so it won’t change anyway.
Have you tried driving your neighbors to the polling place and before you get there telling them how the other candidate fed glass to your dog?
Personal failure, smh
This. You deal with the choice in front of you, and not the ones you wish you had. Life is bigger than our little worlds.
Who makes you pretend that? You guys all want a medal for preaching to the choir?
The Democratic party expects their members to pretend that what’s happening in Gaza is not a genocide. They censured Rep Tlaib for saying so in Congress.
Or, it’s actually not.
Reported as election interference
So what you’re saying is that you’re a-okay with fascism and genocide, provided it wears a blue jersey?
I don’t think anyone is saying that. You’re just arguing in bad faith.
I see a whole lot of excuses flying form Democrats to try and distract from the fact that they’re voting for Genocide Joe in November.
This thread is littered with them.
If you actually cared about saving Palestine, your best bet is genocide Joe whether you like it or not.
Every other option just increases the chance for Turbo Genocide Donny to “finish the job”, and you know it.
But you don’t care about Palestine, do you? You just want to sow chaos in the US.
Who are you voting for?
If you’re wonder why it seems like no one takes you seriously, it’s the “gEnoCiDe jOe” thing. It’s just as cringy as “Let’S gO bRaNdOn! but with the added take that it’s coming for a group of people that should know better.
Nah… while you’re dead, they’ll just use your last address of residency and full name to cast your vote for you. You can enjoy staying in the grave-slumber.
It would be nice if people actually knew what they were talking about though. Biden is REQUIRED by a law that was put in place years ago to provide Israel with weapons.
Oh get out of here with your facts. The kids are having a circlejerk. They weren’t born at the time. They can’t be expected to know these things.
Oh, he’s just following orders!
It’s not like we have other laws requiring you not to support genocide for this exact situation that he can use to halt arms shipments.
What is that law? Closest I think I can get is HR 4986 sec 227 which mentions Israel, but I can’t read further. Who put it in place?
From the linked politico article,
In 2008, George W. Bush was in his second term as president.
Yes, Bush was the president for most of 2008. Obama got a short portion, although the exact president in place doesn’t necessarily tell you if they agreed anyway. Since president’s don’t really write law, I was looking for the exact law to see the history of which representatives were pushing it. I wanted to see what the angle was for that piece of the bill and what else was attached to it. Nothing gets passed as an individual law, meaning it was probably a rider in a much larger group of laws that likely made it a non-negotiable requirement bundled into a more pressing matter.
But I guess 9+ people read my simple question as total contempt for the situation.
This is the faction a lot of our elected leaders think should be ‘strong’.
Tankies don’t show up to forums about headlines they can’t cram into their preordained propaganda forms.
Yeah, those stupid kids should just realize that one constant in America is that we kill or enable the killing of children. They should just accept that children will be killed in their name and get over themselves like us grown ups.
No, it isn’t.
We want to replace Genocide Joe with the Greens.
Unfortunately most American voters lack a conscience, so it’s not going to happen.
Lmao, comment more.
You’re definitely not making yourself look like you need live-in nursing care to wipe your ass.
You’re also making really REALLY good, logical fair points and you’re totally not moving the goalposts.
Take your bad faith ba to .ml or hexbear, you troglodyte.
Joe Biden is a lot more efficient at getting weapons Israel needs for their genocide than Trump ever will be.
Joe Biden has received more Israeli political donations than any other United States politician in history. Full stop.
Get your head out of your ass
Propagandists are so funny. It’s like…. You make shit up that can’t be proven, verified, or is otherwise even remotely realistic, and then you pretend it’s real to the point that you’re willing to argue it online with total strangers.
It’s blows my mind how this is done.
While quick math shows their claim untrue, what is true is that Biden has received over 5.7 million over the course of his career .
Which firmly places him at the top of pro-Israel donor pools.
There’s also no question that Trump is a vastly worse candidate… this doesn’t make Biden a good candidate.
I never said he was a great candidate. I simply said that propagandists seem to have it out for Biden.
Surprising they’re always silent with their criticism of anything from the right.
Ever wonder why?
K
She reminds me of an alcoholic friend I had in college. Telling you to stop doesn’t mean I hate you. It means you’re making bad decisions.
Ok, but Trump literally said he deports anybody who protests Israel
How is this better than Joe, who says that Isreal will lose us support if they don’t stop and prioritize civilian safety in their attacks?
Anybody out there who can vet this? Cuz if I wanted a twice-impeached president victory I think I would post:
^^ That is a heaping pile of BULLSHIT.
the point is not to make more people vote trump (everyone who is morally bankrupt enough will do that anyway)
the point is FUD, so that biden voters stay home (good for trump) or vote 3rd party (which would be valid if it weren’t a first past the post system)
The point might actually be to sink Biden’s approval rating so low that he’s forced to reverse course on the specific thing making him unpopular and less likely to win.
I’m not defending Biden, but the view that Trump would be any less prepared to keep sending Israel weapons is utterly baseless. He wouldn’t even pretend to care about the Palestinians, for one thing.
spoiler
asdfasfasfasfas