Here’s where they’re legal, and exactly how legal they are in the US
Many of the “legal” states aren’t all that legal, really.
We have these trucks in Taiwan. It’s quite literally the majority of the trucks on the road. These things are not allowed on the highways because a crash in them will result in likely death.
Instead they are only allowed on local roads where our speeds don’t reach anything more than 40km/hr. Even then, the crashes I have seen in them, the driver is always hurt.
I know Lemmy likes to dream about owning a kei truck. But keep in mind that these trucks are not safe in crashes. They were never designed with the speeds that Americans see on a daily basis.
How about an e-GMP version?
Okay I want a broke down one of these, an crate electric motor, and a lifepo4 battery pack
Used commonly in railway maintenance in Japan! This budget friendly truck is favoured by JR which want to cut budget on everything.
That’s nowhere in the same size class as OPs. It’s just the same style with a cab-forward design. It’s probably a 3-ton.
How about this?
That’s the same model. Its a much heavier duty truck than these little flitter trucks referred to in the OP.
I’m not sure what you’re not understanding here.
Should be correct now? Not really good at identifying car.
That’s more like it.
Any idea what that MOW truck is for? The second cab in the rear is really throwing me off.
The 2nd cab is just so they can drive forward in either direction on the rail.
For towing ?
If it was just for towing it wouldnt have a cab in the rear like that.
I’m sorry, why the fuck aren’t these street legal in more than half of the states? The article says something about safety, but these are street legal all over Europe where we have stronger safety regulations.
Also there’s something I can’t put my finger on about the journalist choosing a hero image of the van losing its cargo.
Here in the states we have
legal corruptionlobbyists which the auto manufacturers pay to keep cheap vehicles from being used. And then the lawmakers claim safety concerns as the reason.Where exactly are these legal in Europe? I’ve never seen one, we have small-ish trucks (that get bigger every iteration) but not this tiny, that I know of. Pretty sure they’re not legal in my country at least.
European road safety regulations are significantly weaker than those in the US and Canada.
Pretty sure that’s not the case, had a little Google and it seems like I’m right, but I’m open to being corrected if I’m wrong or misunderstanding what you mean. Here’s evidence to support my claim:
https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1007/s12544-014-0131-7
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518300034
You’ve never been to Europe, lol.
I’ve lived in several European countries and also worked in compliance departments for auto manufacturers. You have zero clue what you’re talking about.
Yet you back up your claim with nothingness. Not quite sure how living in a country makes you an expert on regulations. Why didn’t you add substance? The compliance department in the companies I worked for wouldn’t be experts btw.
They don’t meet the us safety standards. It could mean a lot of things like lacking 5mph bumpers, air bags, abs, etc.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t safe.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t safe.
At just 31MPH a Kei truck gets absolutely clobbered in front offset and side impact safety tests, even against small vehicles like Smart Cars and the old (small) Ford Rangers. Like don’t bother calling an ambulance just the morgue kind of clobbered.
Kei trucks are neat vehicles and I’d like to have one but scientific testing shows that they are not safe.
yet people are killed / injured on european road at much smaller rate than in the US. the best US state is less safe than even the worst canadian province (and canada isnt even good). the US treats its roads like a car crash derby so it needs “higher standards”, but that approach is provably terrible. not only vehicules are huge and wasteful, but the roads remain horribly unsafe as well.
Just because a vehicle doesn’t meet us safety standards doesn’t mean they aren’t safe. It also doesn’t mean they are safe.
Also, aren’t these all 25 years old or older? Safety expectations should be lower.
Traditionally they’ve been banned because they don’t do well in crash testing, as they don’t have crumple zones or airbags. Here’s some testing from 2010 by the insurance industry arguing that they shouldn’t be on highways.
They’re not really safe. They are generally front heavy, so there is a risk of rolling forward, no crumple zone safety stuff, more often than not the front suspension is under the seat and if that breaks it would shoot up into the cabin, and on top of everything they are pretty slow. They have more in common with an off road Polaris than a traditional truck, which is to be expected because they were mostly designed to be farm trucks. I’d much rather be in an older s10 than a kei truck in the event of a crash (and s10’s aren’t very safe). I think I lot of why they are so popular these days is because there aren’t really any light trucks anymore, and these are an alternative.
I’d still own one if they were just banned on highways. The risk is probably pretty low on low speed city streets, where these would be most useful.
I actually considered it when I last looked for a new vehicle but besides being too expensive for what they are ($10k for a 90s cheap truck) they made a lot of compromises on them. For instance, on most the struts and springs are right under the seats, so if that breaks it would come right up into your legs. If the truck is rust and going over bumps, that is a non zero possibility.
We should take a step back: why do we need all those safety standards in the first place? The reason is that we have such gigantic vehicles in the first place, and smaller ones simply cannot be safe on the same road. Level that all down and suddenly Kei cars are as safe as they need to be.
I wrapped a 2017 SUV around a telephone pole and didn’t get a scratch. It’s not all about other cars.
Not really. I compared it to an older Chevy s10 for a reason. Those were relatively small trucks that, while not always the most reliable, are still a pretty decent option for most people. Kei trucks are a smidge smaller, but are better on gas and frankly less safe. I don’t think this is a “get rid of bigger vehicles and this goes away” but of a “Kei trucks aren’t really any safer than an off-road golf cart and current regulations allows them on the road”. We need the safety regulations so less people die on Auto accidents, and kei trucks don’t really have to comply with even the basic ones.
Probably because it’s not safe to drive them around giant pickups who can’t see over their hoods
This is how we got in this mess, an arms race of trying to feel safe around larger and larger hunks of metal on the road. Americans just have to endanger everyone else for their own peace of mind.
Ya. Everything’s expensive, so people buy the cheapest thing [with four wheels]. I don’t want folks on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum to think these are a safe option.
If(?) a ‘90s Honda sedan is safer but the Kei is new and looks cute, for the same price many will choose the less safe option.
Eight Californians die on our roads every day here and I can’t wait for some solutions. I really do empathize with everyone you readers care about (no oil companies, no just-for-funsies-truck manufacturers) - I hate the thought of crumpled and crushed human bodies.
What makes you think it’s not safe?
Just added something about that - articles & crash tests over the years. Was interested in little vehicles myself. Intrigued seeing them on college campuses.
Thin steel frame, no air bags, no crumple zones.
Check out the crash tests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLcNwRi1Sk&t=40s
Ouch
Wow, the Kei truck does not fare well at all in that offset test!
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=roLcNwRi1Sk&t=40s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Europe and Japan all have freight trucks driving around, so I don’t buy that. The fact that many states won’t allow these is American truck manufacturing protectionism, nothing more. It’s the same reason you can only get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck from Ford, Chevy, or Ram (chicken tax).
The front view from a freight truck is better than that of a f150.
Cab over engine freight trucks with excellent visibility, not jacked up chevys where your view of the ground starts 20 feet in front of you
And that’s precisely because the option isn’t readily available here. We can argue merits of different countries versus the US, but at the end of the day it is what it is unless something changes at the legislative level.
When say a contractor goes to purchase a work vehicle, the option is either a van, which have pathetic motors and hauling capabilities, or a pickup from one of the big 3 that can be outfitted with a utility body. Sometimes you can score one of those Isuzu cabovers, but they’re typically outfitted with a full sized box on the chassis, and they’re far and few between, and often more expensive. Vans are also stupid expensive, especially 4x4 models, because of the van life crowd. The options really are much more limited than other parts of the world, and I truly believe it’s to keep prices high and the money vacuum humming. Plus, you can find an older utility body truck for a fraction of the cost of a used van (I just did this 6 months ago; granted I’m in California, so my experience may not be the norm).
I ended up buying a Ram 2500 when looking for a work truck. I would’ve loved a 25/35 class van, but I need 4x4 (mountains, snow), and because of the premium those models fetch due to demand from the van life people, that wasn’t an option.
And I dunno about other people, but I know what’s in front of my truck at all times. It really isn’t that hard to mind your surroundings.
It’s all about the chicken tax.
Protectionism.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
“My Kei truck can do everything a midsize pickup can do,” said Tyler Hiestand, who owns a home remodeling business in Pennsylvania.
Justin Merriman, who owns a brewery in San Antonio, uses his 1997 Suzuki Carry to haul kegs and cater events.
Most recently, Rhode Island state Sen. Louis P. DiPalma proposed legislation that would prevent the registration of additional Kei trucks in the future while grandfathering in current ones.
Because the trucks don’t meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, they’re legal to import only 25 years after having been manufactured.
Most states have no recorded law about Kei trucks, which often leaves guidelines up to local motor vehicle departments.
Even in states where Kei trucks are expressly legal, like Maine or Kansas, they’re often prohibited from highways or interstates where speeds exceed 55 mph.
The original article contains 667 words, the summary contains 135 words. Saved 80%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Uh oh, better ban them!
Way ahead of ya!
Map: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/kei-truck-legal-states
No recorded law: 28
Legal: 19
Illegal: 2
https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
State-Specific Legality of Kei Trucks: The permissibility of these compact, fuel-efficient vehicles varies across the U.S., largely due to differing safety and environmental standards.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in California? In the Golden State, Kei trucks can be driven on local roads, but not on freeways. This is due to the fact that many of these vehicles are not equipped with EPA-compliant engines for highway use. However, there are no restrictions on their use for off-road activities. Their off-road capabilities make them a popular choice for those in need of a compact work or recreational vehicle.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in Texas? In the Lone Star State, the situation is a bit different. Kei trucks are not street-legal due to the state’s stringent safety standards for passenger vehicles. These trucks often lack standard safety features such as airbags and seatbelts, which can make them less safe in an accident. However, there are exceptions to this rule. If the mini truck is used for agricultural purposes or has been modified to meet the state’s safety standards, it may be allowed on public roads. In these cases, the necessary permits and inspections are required. Laws Governing Kei Trucks in other States. The permissibility of Kei trucks varies greatly across the U.S. For instance, in Alabama, you can use mini trucks on any public roads except interstate highways. The speed limit for these vehicles is 25 mph.
Florida allows registered mini trucks to operate only on streets with a posted speed limit of 35 mph or less. In Louisiana, you can use mini trucks freely with a speed limit under 55 mph. North Carolina allows mini trucks to be licensed and used on all NC roads.
In Washington, mini trucks are street legal. Wyoming permits mini trucks on any roads except for interstate highways. It’s important to note that none of the 50 states allow mini trucks on interstate highways. This is due to safety reasons and the fact that most Kei trucks can only reach a maximum speed of 65 mph, which is lower than the speed limit on interstates.
I think someone who tried to do that might just disappear in this day and age. Don’t ask gen-z, we won’t know.
Mazda B series ready for a come back!
Reminder that due to the chicken tax, these vehicles have to be 25 years old before they can be imported.
The big problem is, these vehicles were built to 30 year old safety standards - no vehicle from the 1990’s (except maybe a SAAB, and even then they’re not strong enough anymore and will fail a small offset frontal) can compete with a modern car in safety requirements.
There is also the fact that these vehicles have been around for 25 years, and have that amount of age and wear on their platform - they won’t be as strong as they originally were off the production line.
Even if you could get a new one, I don’t think they’d meet US safety standards. Not even close.
Mind you, the US has to have stringent safety standards because we have gigantic vehicles in the first place.
Kei vehicles are exempt from most Japanese safety standards, because they’re meant for city driving with max speeds of 40-60 kph and everyone driving them knows and acknowledges that you’re just fucked if you get into an accident at speeds higher than that (and not doing great even at 40kph). It’s an explicit trade of safety for lower cost
no vehicle from the 1990’s (except maybe a SAAB, and even then they’re not strong enough anymore and will fail a small offset frontal) can compete with a modern car in safety requirements.
Americans keep building bigger trucks and raising speed limits, then bemoaning how small vehicles aren’t safe enough to survive an 80mph impact with a 10,000 pound vehicle.
You think these Keis are dangerous? Try riding a bike.
I’d love to ride a train to work. Play on my steam deck on the way home and not have to worry about getting stuck in traffic for hours. Visiting Washington DC and riding the metro everywhere ruined me, now I look at a five lane at road and say “This is bullshit!”.
I call bs, a motorcycle provides way less protection. And which states are they illegal in? Lobbying and another money grab from corporations in our “free market” society. I would love one of these BTW.
Motorcycles have different licensing requirements, and come with caveat emptor that they are inherently unsafe in a motor vehicle accident.
That’s not to say bikes don’t have any safety at all… there is R&D that goes into making them safe in a collision… as safe as they can be.
Why can’t we just accept that the KEI is less safe then?
Anyone who buys a Kei car already knows this just by looking at it.
That’s not to say bikes don’t have any safety at all… there is R&D that goes into making them safe in a collision… as safe as they can be.
Yup. I survived a high-side collision after being sideswiped by an SUV. Thanks to modern safety gear, I only had minor injuries with little long-term beyond an ankle to lets me sense slight changes in atmospheric pressure.
I’m always shocked by this. In a world with seatbelt laws, crumple zones, backup cameras, pinch protection, etc we allow people to ride motorcycles that consistently get injured or killed. How they haven’t gotten banned or stupidly restricted is beyond me. Even with a motorcycle lane, getting in a wreck at 75mph would be seriously bad.
In my state, I’m pretty sure you can ride a motorcycle legally with a helmet and a tshirt on, but get pulled over and fined for not wearing a seatbelt, lol.
The seat belt is to prevent you from being thrown through the glass and body/frame of the vehicle. Because that’s generally what kills unseatbelted people in a wreck. A motorcyclist will be thrown from their vehicle if hit but is much less likely to hit that vehicle at 70mph. That’s why you dress for the slide so to speak. It’s about how you land as much as anything. And when you’re inside a vehicle and being tossed around you are basically a reverse pinata.
Thank god someone said it. This comment makes the most sense of any of the comments I’ve read so far.
And if you get it from Japan it’s right hand drive so visibility of the incoming lane is crap as well…
Also, for Kei trucks specifically, cab over engine vehicles are unsafe in frontal collisions no matter what, even modern ones, that’s why there’s no regular passenger vehicle built like that anymore and it’s only heavier vehicles (like moving trucks) that have this setup, they don’t fall under the same safety regulations.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24499113/
Conclusions: Although we are generally concerned that drivers of small vehicles suffer more severe injuries, our results suggest that, for real-world accidents, K-cars provide similar safety for drivers involved in frontal collisions as standard vehicles in low delta V impact conditions.
Not all Kei cars are Kei trucks with cab over wheels.
“Low delta V impact”. I’m sure a car from the 50s deals with front collisions at 30kph fairly well, but go watch a crash test at highway speeds and tell me you would feel safe.
Freaking lol
As much as overpaying sucks, that thing is just asking to get obliterated on an American road.
Or just use them in cities or rural areas. Not everyone goes onto the freeway everyday.
Are American roads like one of those bumper car thingies of the amusement parks?
I’d honestly love one of these, depending in if it’s powerful enough to haul a decently heavy load up a hill.
I woodwork as a hobby, and have been wanting an old truck for a while, but the used truck market is pretty insane right now. All I want is an old beater with a reliable engine and a standard sized bed that’s capable of hauling sheet goods (4ft wide) without hassle.
This would check those marks. If the price was right, I’d happily drive this little guy around.
Instead, the market is full of ridiculously sized pickups with tiny truck beds because either the cab is huge, or they waste so much space making the truck look “tough” that the beds shrink narrower than 4ft.
As long as I can get a small truck in a V6 so that I don’t stall out hauling something heavy like cement bags, I’m in.
If you are in the US, look into minivans, or cargo vans. They are not popular here, so you’re not paying the pretty tax on them, and most vans with the rear seats removed can easily fit 4x8 plywood in the back. A beater van with a strong engine should be a lot cheaper than a beater pickup truck.
Yeah, I used to borrow my parents van on occasion, but they got a newer model of the same van (Odyssey) that could no longer fit sheet goods.
Also was pretty awkward tying the trunk door on the occasions where I needed longer material, which I would be doing more of nowadays. And TBH, despite my best efforts to pad things and load materials gently, I did scrap up the interior a bit, which wouldn’t be a factor with a truck.
A work van might do, though. Those seem pretty huge.
People around here usually have trailers behind their normal cars for that. Works fine.
Yeah, I’ve considered that too. Neither of us have a car with a hitch, and we don’t have a good place to store a trailer for extended periods of time, but it’s an option I’m considering for sure.
U-Haul trailer when you need it?
Essentially what I’ve been doing. HD rental truck. But truck availability and requiring multiple round trips to return and pick up my car means I put it off until I’m blocked, and then needlessly stock up on sheet goods that I might need in the future, but ultimately sit around for a year or two before I use them.
But yeah, this is what I’m doing while I bide my time for truck prices to drop. And I’ve push back a bunch of projects that rely on ply because I just don’t want to deal with the hassle.
To your point, I bet the trailers are probably more readily available. The trucks themselves are very hit or miss in my experience. But there always seems to be trailers in the lot.
Look into Telo trucks. Modern, electric, safe, small. I know they haven’t launched yet, but i have high hopes they get everyone rethinking their pickup choices.
Most kei trucks have 3 cylinders. A few have 4. Here’s a starting point.. Here’s another.
A guy in a common group as me owns https://luckysminitrucks.com
Man, I always thought the bigger SUVs looked like those oversized clown shoes, but the size comparison picture does drive home just how much dead air is in them.
I’ve wanted one of these for decades but the options are pay out the ass for import fees or buy a 30 year old model, neither fee great. Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us driving massive trucks and SUVs over realist vehicles
Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us
driving massive trucks and SUVsspending thousands to money lenders, auto manufacturers, and dealerships over realist vehicles.Doubly so if those parties are campaign contributors. Always follow the money.
If these don’t meet road safety requirements then it won’t get better
It’s almost as if car manufacturers and big oil write the laws to increase their own profit margins…
How long until these are banned ?
Already are banned in a few states, relegated to being registered as off road vehicles only.
I saw in the article that they are legal in 19 states. I did not see the off road vehicle bit. Interesting, and thanks.
It’s already happening in some states
Regardless of bans, I’ve heard these cars are INCREDIBLY hard to import. Not only is getting permits for them difficult, but many places selling them domestically have gone around the laws regarding them, resulting in people’s Kei trucks being taken by the government and shipped back to Japan on their dime.
It’s not an easy thing to get into.
