Vance is one of Trump’s most vocal supporters and an outspoken critic of U.S. aid to Ukraine.

. . .

Vance has said that it would be “completely irresponsible” for Ukraine to join NATO. He has also argued for the U.S. to focus solely on preventing Chinese expansion, even if that means sacrificing sovereign Ukrainian lands to Russia.

“Any peace settlement is going to require some significant territorial concessions from Ukraine, and you’re gonna have a peace deal, because that’s the only way out of the conflict,” Vance said in February.

MBFC
Archive

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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    2 months ago

    What’s the lead time on T-shirt printing these days?

    Should I get the “Hang JD Vance” shirts printed now so I’ve got them ready to sell, or wait until Trump inevitably turns on him?

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Vance is going to push Trump down a flight of stairs his first five minutes in office. He’s going to invoke the 25th amendment so fast it’ll make your head spin.

      The guy has absolutely no interest in being VP and his buddies in Silicon Valley are already chomping at the bit for a Techbro Coup. He’s not going to wait 3 hours much less 3 days.

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        The concept of a Techbro coup is so fucking absurd to me. Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses. Mostly cause Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power, add on to the fact that nobody fucking likes them and well theres a good chance theyd be mulched.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses.

          Plenty of the coups in Latin America and the Middle East during the 50s and 60s were sponsored by these bean-counters and their billionaire buddies working out of various right-wing think tanks. The Chicago School of Business produced legions of these fuckers and flew them out from Mexico City to Santiago to Brasília. The Saudi Crown Prince MBS has absolutely inundated himself with these freaks in his quest to build the world’s most technologically advanced shopping mall. New Zealand is currently drowning in Techbro fascism, after their local media was hijacked by the far right and the residents talked into electing a white nationalist government.

          Hell, states like California and Texas and Florida are already thick with these ghouls. That’s a big reason why our energy prices are skyrocketing in these states. Techbros build these enormous power-hog data centers and jack up the price of electricity for everyone else.

          Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power

          They have a great deal of institutional power through contracts with federal and state governments. They’re embedded deep in the post-War on Terror panopticon and own huge stakes in private media, so they get to dictate a lot of what we see and hear while distorting public outcries and SWATing political dissidents.

          Techbros aren’t the brightest, but cops are way dumber and more easy to manipulate. And as our domestic budget increasingly becomes “Oops! All Cops!” that means obedience to the Techbro Establishment is how you make money and keep your job, especially as law enforcement.

          That’s huge leverage in a system that already favors extremist ultra-nationalist white supremacy.

          • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Dont take my amusement as dismissal, its foolish to underestimate ones enemy. Everything you said is decently true, hell I should know my great grandfather helped run the proto Techbros out of the region back in the 70s. No the weakness of the fascistic Techbro is that they are inherently institutional, anything that works outside of it or doesnt follow procedures is inherently at an advantage against them. Do you really think Musk or Thiel consider that someone may just blow them up with a car bomb or shoot them point blank with a 12 gauge?

            Their power is drawn from the institutions making them inherently a secondary power behind the actual fascist leadership. They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together. The fascist respects strength, but the Techbros have none. They hide behind laws, money, and influence.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together.

              That’s just fascism generally speaking. You either liberalize or you fail. A paranoid personality cult of an administration can’t last long without people Operation Valkyrie-ing each other, as evidence by Trump’s ear going missing last weekend.

              But in the meantime, you get to restructure the liberal order so that your people are in charge when the dust settles.

              • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                The point I am trying to make is that to even get to the point where they can set shit up for the future they first must get past the first hurdle of consolidation. Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example. They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example.

                  That’s why they introduce guys like Vance, though. He’s a great front-man for the operation because liberals continue to treat him as just another moderate midwestern politician. And he’s proven his star power, with his movie and book deal.

                  They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.

                  I guess we’ll see…

  • andxz@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I’ve been on the outside observing this escalating shit show for 8 years now and I think I’ve finally reached the point where I don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.

    I mean, I know there’s a lot of history behind it etc., but just the past months? I don’t even…

    I hope shit gets better for ya’ll, I sincerely do.

      • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Can you expand on that? Seems conflicting.

        A policy of no war, no foreign aid and especially focusing on America and everything in it… how did that lead to world wars?

        • Rowan Thorpe@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          I’ll answer the “why would it now lead to disaster” part, and by shuffling names, places, & contexts around I believe much of that can be obliquely backported to the same question with respect to runup to the world wars of yore.

          USA’s multi-decade cultural imperialism and dogged pursuit of economic hegemony led to it imposing itself as a global barometer and gatekeeper (despite being famously incompetent at both). The upshot is that now, even though philosophically it would be wonderful for the US to finally stop enforcing a petrodollar-driven serfdom on so much of the world in the name of “infinite (US economic) expansion”, pragmatically speaking a magical and abrupt “pull out” would be wildly irresponsible, much like yanking an arrow out of a wound in the direction from which it entered (causing a Jackson Pollock’s worth of collateral damage). That would largely be because the sudden power vacuum would not be able to be filled in time by other countries (who are under-resourced due to aforementioned hegemonic squeezing), leaving not enough people to “not tolerate the intolerant”, leading to explosive expansion of the “ignorant bullies masquerading as politicians” brigade (not unlike Hitler’s opportunistic power-grab while the politicians who should have been the ballwark against him hubristically sat on their hands). See: https://www.ournationalconversation.org/post/explaining-the-paradox-of-tolerance

          • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Well, the U.S. doesn’t have to worry about enforcing the petro-dollar, because the Global South is pulling away from the petro-dollar. The U.S. is going to have to start looking into opening up those oil reserves that Biden closed and bringing jobs back to America that were exported to other nations. Self sufficiency, at least more so than current, needs to be the goal. The world, outside of the Western World, is turning its back on the U.S. and rightfully so… sooner or later so too will the Western Powers turn their backs on the U.S.

            I agree though that an abrupt pullout like Biden did in Afghanistan is a stupid fkin idea and should be done gracefully.

            • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Manufacturing jobs, and most other low wage jobs, never left the US. That is a lie fed to you by your wage slave masters. The US currently manufactures 300% more products than we did in 1972 which was the last year of the golden age of the 20th century US. The wage slave masters automated those jobs, so we do triple the production with 1/100 the workforce.

              We are already self sufficient. Isolationism will not help any of your stated goals, and will cause global instability.

              • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                So I work in the IT industry… almost everything IT related, some portion of it has been exported overseas. Same goes for the customer service industry.

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Vance doesn’t want that, he just wants out of this particular conflict so he can start shit somewhere else.

    • Jamil@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      He still wants to send all the aid Israel will not ever want to commit genocide.

      • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Unfortunately the U.S. belongs to Israel.

        And fkin lol @ people downvoting:

        No more war.

        No more foreign aid.

        We need to focus on Americans and America.

        Holy moly, some of yall are insufferable.

        • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          If you think US can sustain itself without foreign products, you’re high on your own farts. Open a window to the basement, get some fresh air.

              • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                You jumped to the conclusion that I’m asking for some kind of self imposed trade embargo. You’re pretending to, “think one little step ahead”… you fkin with a game of checkers, I’m on 4D Chess. GTFO. lmao

  • UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Its very easy to see that Putin is running the GOP.

    At this point it looks like they are competing on who in the GOP can suck up to the russians the most

  • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I agree that Ukraine has lost land due to the US/NATO stopping Russia-Ukraine peace deals and talks in 2022.

    I am anti-war, so peace deals should be at the forefront; war is a Last Resort[1].

    Many on the ‘far left’ and ‘far right’ say:

    NATO is a terrorist organization.


    [1] Papa Roach - Last Resort 2020 (Explicit) [03:22 | Rap, Rock, USA, In English, Rap Metal, Mental Health, Metal, Alternative Metal, Nu-Metal] https://youtu.be/D2Jl27lYExU

        • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          useful idiot

          Great show; I made communities for the hosts!

          You reminded me to share a video, thanks!

          Useful Idiots is an informative and irreverent politics podcast with journalists @aaronjmate and @kthalps

      • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        The ones where Ukraine agrees to defund its military completely and stop asking for aid and Russia paints a little smiley face on their bombs in order to seem more friendly of course!

      • CableMonster@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        It was a peace deal where Russia would have withdrawn to Feb 23 2022 positions, hostilities would stop and Ukraine would agree not to join NATO. Boris Johnson flew in and said that NATO would give them money to keep fighting. Fast forward two years later and we have tens of thousands more dead Ukrainians and much more lost territory, and a terrible negotiating position.

          • CableMonster@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            You want me to look it up just so you can say “THATS A TERRIBLE SOURCE!!!”. I am going to pass.

                • Womble@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I mean, if it was world wide news surely it would be easy to get a reputable source like AP reporting that Russia officially made that offer?

        • FreeFacts@sopuli.xyz
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          2 months ago

          Remember Chamberlain? He made his allies submit to german concessions because that would maintain peace. Fast forward five years and we had 40+ million more dead Europeans and the continent bombed to rubble.

    • HC4L@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      As a European I’m so gratefull people didn’t “go for talks” on that day they stormed the beaches… sometimes you have to actually fight for your ideals and not water them down every time they are opposed…

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      You do know “You agree to stop protecting yourself and I’ll consider potentially maybe not bombing your orphanages and hospitals nearly as often, possibly.” is not a Respectable Peace Deal

    • SeaJ@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      If you are anti-wat, you hoyos be against Russia starting them in the first place or at the very least support making it not worth it in the future. Forcing Ukraine to give up territory is neither of those.

  • VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I’m not complaining. Only way I’d be happier with his VP pick is if he took up Rubio and forced him to give up Florida.

    Vance is also a snake and he’ll backstab the orange man at some point most likely.

    • PlainSimpleGarak@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Vance is a cuck. He was a harsh critic of Trump until he wasn’t.

      I don’t see how Vance gets Trump any extra votes. They appear to attract the same kind of people.

      If they win, it gets Vance out of my state. Which is fine (I voted for Tim Ryan).

      • irotsoma@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Vance is there so Trump can scapegoat him for handing Putin everything he wants, that’s about it.

      • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        It must be hard for the Tankies that developed Lemmy that most users dislike their communities.

        It’s a shame that a regressive and thoughtless fringe ideology is attached to the project.

        But make no mistake, Tankies didn’t invent federated social media or ActivityPub, they wrote a single piece of software. If it wasn’t Lemmy, it would be Kbin or some other project.

        If the Tankies keep it up, they might find their software doesn’t get much funding or community attention, so there’s no reason to convince yourself that this place will continue to exist as a Lemmy-centric network.

        • rekorse@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Lol this passive aggressive nonsense is the most american thing in this thread. If you people dont stop having your own opinion, us white folk might just stop funding your little projects! How big and important you are, we definitely wouldnt want to offend you.

          • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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            2 months ago

            I’m not going to be passive aggressive about it, there’s a simple reality at play here.

            Lemmy is FOSS, so the moment that these tankies try to give themselves some backdoor or whatever to gain undue influence over the system, it will be discovered, forked and everyone will switch and they will be left out in the cold with nothing.

            Maybe that’ll happen, maybe it won’t. Maybe they’ll get sick of only running pariah instances and take their ball and go home, except we can make a copy of their ball and keep going.

            That’s why I’m happy to use the system, it’s an open ecosystem and no individual developer has the power to torpedo it, even if they are the founders. Their authoritarian tendencies can’t do that much damage in the long run.

            • rekorse@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I was more talking about how you made it sound like the founders of lemmy are upset with the user base of it as a whole, and then said they are fake founders anyways because the real work was done before them by others, and then said if they keep it up (never said what they were doing to begin with) SOME PEOPLE wink**wink will stop supporting them financially.

              Its just dripping with self importance and arrogance. Its an extremely american thing to assume that your viewpoint is the only valid and logical one.

              • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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                2 months ago

                You have me confused with someone else.

                How very like a tankie to be unable to follow the basic and obvious facts of a situation. That’s necessary to become a tankie.

                • rekorse@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Yeah I assumed the person defending the OP was the OP, my bad. What’s your excuse for being an asshat? Internet tough guy? You sound so big and in charge when you talk like that you know. Do you talk to strangers like that in person too? Can you share your other qualities so I can copy them? You are obviously an amazing person so please help me.

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Tankies hate JD Vance too. The only reason he wants peace in Ukraine is to start shit with China. We tankies don’t want to make peace in one place just to fight somewhere else, we want peace and deescalation all over the globe.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          It’s wild how eager people are to look at the exact same people who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan and say, “Yeah, I trust them to have the people’s best interests at heart when they lead us into another conflict.”

          • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            Not everybody on Lemmy is American and bound to American news. Some of us live near russia and know first-hand about what it is and what it isn’t.

            I know, you americans are really good at “doing your own research”.

            • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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              2 months ago

              Not everyone who went into Iraq or Afghanistan was an American either, the leaders of plenty of other countries supported it too.

              Also we’re talking about American politician JD Vance and what he wants to do regarding US foreign policy, so the history of US foreign policy is obviously relevant.

              • Prandom_returns@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                I’m not talking about JD Vance. I’m talking about very convenient to tankies and ruskies “we want peace and deescalation” when Ukraine is devoured by an imperialist, authoritarian shithead.

                But again, you’re a self-proclaimed tankie, of course your gobbling authoritarian dick.

                • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                  2 months ago

                  Can’t think of a time in history where both sides in a war didn’t claim it was about defense and security, whether it was or not. I remember when they said “Either we fight them over there or we’ll have to fight them here,” and went off to kill a million people in the Middle East, and then they lost, and now, where are all the terror attacks they said would happen? I remember too (though I’m not old enough to have lived through it) when they said if we didn’t go out and kill 4 million people in Vietnam, they’d keep expanding all over and eventually we’d be fighting them here. Well, we lost that one too, and nothing bad happened afterward. So forgive me if I’m just a little bit skeptical of the latest pretext for pouring ridiculous sums of money into the pockets of defense contractors so the rich can get richer while our schools, roads, and hospitals decline further and further into dysfunction.

                  I am a tankie, yes, because tankies seem to be the only people interested in spending less money on tanks and more on human wellbeing.