There’s no such thing as “ultra genocide” and if there was, it’s already happening in Gaza and it’s being fueled by a Democratic administration, not a Republican one.
Uh huh, and how realistic do you actually think that is? Israel is going to allow Trump to drop a nuclear bomb on their border…
The fact that the retort is “It could be worse, they could drop a literal nuke on Gaza” should be an indicator that what you’re arguing as an acceptable alternative is indefensibly extreme.
Nope. I’ve been supportive of Harris up to this point since her stepping forward as potential nominee. I genuinely hope she can demonstrate that she’s against the genocide.
There will be two candidates to choose from who are going to collectively get 90+ percent of the vote. You can vote for the lesser of 2 evils or waste your vote on third party.
Do you know nothing about Project 2025? It will cause more genocide. Genocide in your country.
Do you want to see Latinos carted away and queer kids committing suicide after being forced into “conversion therapy?” Because that’s exactly what Trump will bring.
How about all the other people? Millions of people. Fuck them? Because she’s just having a meeting with the perpetrator of a different genocide on the other side of the planet? A genocide that Trump will also perpetuate and has already said he would make worse?
So essentially your refusal to “support genocide” in another country will make that genocide worse and add more genocide to the mix.
But hey, this is all about sparing you from potential harm, right? Fuck all those illegals and homos.
You dismiss the idea that the humanity of Palestinians is equal to your own. Its ok for them to die under the bombs and weapons we supply to Israel, as long as it allows us to avoid our own domestic discomfort. We differ on this fact.
I’m part of the groups that will probably be most immediately effected by a Trump admin. That fear will not push me to support a genocide.
If the American system is broken and corrupted then we as Americans should be facing and reconciling those problems ourselves, not transferring our own potential discomfort and suffering overseas to kids that are out of sight and out of mind.
It’s about millions of other people. People whose lives you apparently don’t care about. I guess they’re too brown or too queer to be part of that whole ‘humanity being equal’ thing.
Yes, it is. It’s cowardice and self-interest. You’re not going to be able to flip this.
You can’t on one hand claim you care about the hypothetical suffering millions while arguing for ignoring a very real on-going genocide funded by your representatives.
“Just let Democrats get away with funding the slaughter of Gazans as long as we can skirt around the consequences of our corrupt politics here.”
Maybe this will help; imagine the Gazans are white Americans. Ignore that they’re brown and live behind some imaginary line “somewhere else” in the world and instead pretend you see them as equal to you.
When you take the perspective that they’re just as human and deserving of life as any of the other domestic groups you’re talking about, you realize that Biden is, at this very moment, doing a “Project 2025” of his own. It’s just against human beings who happen to be 7,000 miles away instead of closer to you.
If Harris chooses to continue Bidens policy on this, I can’t vote for her, exactly the same as I can’t vote for Trump or Biden or any other zionist.
Do explain to me how it’s self-interest when I am cishet and white.
And again- the “real ongoing genocide” will be made worse by Trump. You just obviously don’t care about that. And if you don’t feel like voting for either of them, just stay home and don’t vote. Why waste your time or energy?
the “real ongoing genocide” will be made worse by Trump.
Why are you putting this in quotes? It’s an on-going genocide.
And there’s nothing Trump can do to make what’s hapoening in Gaza any worse. Israel is doing exactly as they please. There us no more room to push the needle. The fact that you think there’s room for “worse” makes me think you don’t actually understand what’s happening there.
Even if Trump sent troops to help with the killing it wouldn’t do anything, because it’s a full-blown genocide already and the only thing Israel needs to continue it is what we’ve bern giving them.
Anything but voting for Harris would be supporting Trump, an even worse pro-genocide candidate. You can’t equate Harris, who’s calling for a ceasefire, with Trump, who gave Israel Jerusalem and is telling Israel to keep going with the genocide.
“Anything but voting for Trump is supporting Harris.”
Nonsensical, right?
Biden and Trump are equally bad on genocide, there is no “worse”. If Harris chooses to signal she’s continuing Biden’s genocide support I’m out again. I’m willing to compromise on Harris’ generally but nothing has changed in my tolerance for pro-genocide candidates, and nothing ever will.
Luckily not funding genocide is an easy hurdle to cross. We’ll see if Harris manages to do it.
You want to believe that the IDF is held back by lack of personnel, but they’re not. They are not being held back from anything they want to do. Putting US soldiers in Gaza does not add to their capacity to continue the genocide exactly as they wish.
Zionists keep trying to convince everyone that Trump would be worse on this, which is simply a way of refusing to accept the reality of just how bad it really is.
You’re not understanding what I was saying (or you’re continuing to try to intentionally misrepresent what I was saying).
Using your analogy, you’re the one saying 6 million deaths is acceptable as long as it doesn’t get to six million and one. You’re trying to simultaneously say we need to accept mass slaughter to avoid mass slaughter, it’s nonsense.
The “six million deaths” are happening in Gaza right now. They are actually suffering and dying, but you’re telling us we should accept that since you’re afraid of not being able to kick the political can down the road and kerp pretending everything can be fine.
It doesn’t matter, I can’t make you understand why rewarding the Democrats for genocidal fascist policy is a losing strategy when they’re suppose to be the alternative to genocidal fascists. You either let yourself understand it or you don’t.
No, what you said was that it doesn’t matter if Palestinians are being genocided only by Israel, or simultaneously by Israel and The USA.
The latter results in significantly more civilian deaths in Palestine. To you, these lost lives don’t matter, because genocide is apparently equally bad no matter how many people die…
Which is just to say that “genocide” in your worldview is just a buzzword you use to attack people with, and not an actual atrocity that ought to be opposed.
It can be endorsing, yes. There’s a reason so many democrats are not attending – going to Netanyahu’s speech lends him legitimacy and a greater perception of support.
World politics is about negotiation.
Stopping the genocide doesn’t require negotiation, you withhold aid until they stop.
But as I keep saying, Harris will need to find way to signal that her meeting isn’t in support of Netanyahu. If she goes in and is giving him hugs and holding his hand up in unity and that kind of bullshit, that’s a really bad sign. It can go either way, I’m just stating that I won’t support genocide just because it gets a fresh face on it, Harris needs to prove her commitment to holding Netanyahu to account in a real, material way.
I won’t support pro-genocide candidates. Yes really.
She really should not be meeting with right-wing fascists.
“Genocide is bad, so I’m going to support the candidate who supports ultra genocide with extra genocide at home instead”
There’s no such thing as “ultra genocide” and if there was, it’s already happening in Gaza and it’s being fueled by a Democratic administration, not a Republican one.
I would consider calls to nuke Gaza ultra genocide
Uh huh, and how realistic do you actually think that is? Israel is going to allow Trump to drop a nuclear bomb on their border…
The fact that the retort is “It could be worse, they could drop a literal nuke on Gaza” should be an indicator that what you’re arguing as an acceptable alternative is indefensibly extreme.
Yes but that’s the “things are bad (Harris), so might as well make them worse (Trump)” attitude.
No. This is about Democratic support of genocide. I simply won’t support any candidate willing to help kill and starve children.
If Dems want my vote the price is the same as it’s been; don’t support far-right fascists committing genocide.
Very, very low bar.
Bullshit. You’d find some other reason to whine and discourage others from voting. No one’s buying your both sides shit.
Nope. I’ve been supportive of Harris up to this point since her stepping forward as potential nominee. I genuinely hope she can demonstrate that she’s against the genocide.
There will be two candidates to choose from who are going to collectively get 90+ percent of the vote. You can vote for the lesser of 2 evils or waste your vote on third party.
Do you know nothing about Project 2025? It will cause more genocide. Genocide in your country.
Do you want to see Latinos carted away and queer kids committing suicide after being forced into “conversion therapy?” Because that’s exactly what Trump will bring.
I won’t support genocide in another country to spare myself from potential harm, no, that would be morally bankrupt.
I don’t vote based on fear. I can’t be threatened in that way.
Yourself? This isn’t about you.
How about all the other people? Millions of people. Fuck them? Because she’s just having a meeting with the perpetrator of a different genocide on the other side of the planet? A genocide that Trump will also perpetuate and has already said he would make worse?
So essentially your refusal to “support genocide” in another country will make that genocide worse and add more genocide to the mix.
But hey, this is all about sparing you from potential harm, right? Fuck all those illegals and homos.
You dismiss the idea that the humanity of Palestinians is equal to your own. Its ok for them to die under the bombs and weapons we supply to Israel, as long as it allows us to avoid our own domestic discomfort. We differ on this fact.
I’m part of the groups that will probably be most immediately effected by a Trump admin. That fear will not push me to support a genocide.
If the American system is broken and corrupted then we as Americans should be facing and reconciling those problems ourselves, not transferring our own potential discomfort and suffering overseas to kids that are out of sight and out of mind.
For fuck’s sake, it’s also not about me.
It’s about millions of other people. People whose lives you apparently don’t care about. I guess they’re too brown or too queer to be part of that whole ‘humanity being equal’ thing.
Yes, it is. It’s cowardice and self-interest. You’re not going to be able to flip this.
You can’t on one hand claim you care about the hypothetical suffering millions while arguing for ignoring a very real on-going genocide funded by your representatives.
“Just let Democrats get away with funding the slaughter of Gazans as long as we can skirt around the consequences of our corrupt politics here.”
Maybe this will help; imagine the Gazans are white Americans. Ignore that they’re brown and live behind some imaginary line “somewhere else” in the world and instead pretend you see them as equal to you.
When you take the perspective that they’re just as human and deserving of life as any of the other domestic groups you’re talking about, you realize that Biden is, at this very moment, doing a “Project 2025” of his own. It’s just against human beings who happen to be 7,000 miles away instead of closer to you.
If Harris chooses to continue Bidens policy on this, I can’t vote for her, exactly the same as I can’t vote for Trump or Biden or any other zionist.
Do explain to me how it’s self-interest when I am cishet and white.
And again- the “real ongoing genocide” will be made worse by Trump. You just obviously don’t care about that. And if you don’t feel like voting for either of them, just stay home and don’t vote. Why waste your time or energy?
Why are you putting this in quotes? It’s an on-going genocide.
And there’s nothing Trump can do to make what’s hapoening in Gaza any worse. Israel is doing exactly as they please. There us no more room to push the needle. The fact that you think there’s room for “worse” makes me think you don’t actually understand what’s happening there.
Even if Trump sent troops to help with the killing it wouldn’t do anything, because it’s a full-blown genocide already and the only thing Israel needs to continue it is what we’ve bern giving them.
Anything but voting for Harris would be supporting Trump, an even worse pro-genocide candidate. You can’t equate Harris, who’s calling for a ceasefire, with Trump, who gave Israel Jerusalem and is telling Israel to keep going with the genocide.
“Anything but voting for Trump is supporting Harris.”
Nonsensical, right?
Biden and Trump are equally bad on genocide, there is no “worse”. If Harris chooses to signal she’s continuing Biden’s genocide support I’m out again. I’m willing to compromise on Harris’ generally but nothing has changed in my tolerance for pro-genocide candidates, and nothing ever will.
Luckily not funding genocide is an easy hurdle to cross. We’ll see if Harris manages to do it.
Meeting with someone ≠ Endorsing them
World politics is about negotiation. I’d rather she tucked into the conflict and tried to improve the situation than ignoring it.
You’re talking to someone who just told me that it wouldn’t even make a difference if Trump marched U.S. troops into Gaza.
You’re deeply dishonest.
And yet that’s almost literally what you said.
https://lemmy.world/comment/11358062
So it’s weird that you’re calling me deeply dishonest.
Trying to cut out context is dishonest.
You want to believe that the IDF is held back by lack of personnel, but they’re not. They are not being held back from anything they want to do. Putting US soldiers in Gaza does not add to their capacity to continue the genocide exactly as they wish.
Zionists keep trying to convince everyone that Trump would be worse on this, which is simply a way of refusing to accept the reality of just how bad it really is.
There is no context in which “more dead people is not a worse outcome” is a moral answer.
And the context in which you said that saving one life during the Holocaust didn’t matter?
I’d say most people here would be absolutely willing to save a single person’s life from genocide.
You’re not understanding what I was saying (or you’re continuing to try to intentionally misrepresent what I was saying).
Using your analogy, you’re the one saying 6 million deaths is acceptable as long as it doesn’t get to six million and one. You’re trying to simultaneously say we need to accept mass slaughter to avoid mass slaughter, it’s nonsense.
The “six million deaths” are happening in Gaza right now. They are actually suffering and dying, but you’re telling us we should accept that since you’re afraid of not being able to kick the political can down the road and kerp pretending everything can be fine.
It doesn’t matter, I can’t make you understand why rewarding the Democrats for genocidal fascist policy is a losing strategy when they’re suppose to be the alternative to genocidal fascists. You either let yourself understand it or you don’t.
No, what you said was that it doesn’t matter if Palestinians are being genocided only by Israel, or simultaneously by Israel and The USA.
The latter results in significantly more civilian deaths in Palestine. To you, these lost lives don’t matter, because genocide is apparently equally bad no matter how many people die…
Which is just to say that “genocide” in your worldview is just a buzzword you use to attack people with, and not an actual atrocity that ought to be opposed.
That is not what I am saying at all. If you’re going to accuse me of intentionally misrepresenting what you’re saying, don’t do it to me.
It can be endorsing, yes. There’s a reason so many democrats are not attending – going to Netanyahu’s speech lends him legitimacy and a greater perception of support.
Stopping the genocide doesn’t require negotiation, you withhold aid until they stop.
But as I keep saying, Harris will need to find way to signal that her meeting isn’t in support of Netanyahu. If she goes in and is giving him hugs and holding his hand up in unity and that kind of bullshit, that’s a really bad sign. It can go either way, I’m just stating that I won’t support genocide just because it gets a fresh face on it, Harris needs to prove her commitment to holding Netanyahu to account in a real, material way.