“Israel’s far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has ordered preparations for the annexation of the occupied West Bank ahead of US President-elect Donald Trump taking office in January 2025.”
Hey, Arab American Trump voters:
WE FUCKING TOLD YOU SO. YOU FUCKING IMBECILES.
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Can we finally stop pretending that Israel is an “ally.” I consider the state of Israel to be an enemy to the general American public.
The general American public just voted in favor of this. The alliance will only be strengthend under Trump.
That doesn’t change my opinion. That alliance is to the U.S. government, not to the U.S. people. I consider them to be a hostile entity.
Okay, but they can’t be an enemy of the american public if that same public votes for a president that supports Israel and its genocide.
Don’t know what to tell you. I’m expressing my opinion on how I personally see them, which is an entity that is openly hostile to the American public.
People voting for them doesn’t negate this. It only means that people vote against their own self-interests, which is nothing new as we’ve seen time and time again.
Narrowing down the options to apartheid/genocide and the abolition of the Jewish character of Israel. In other words killing off the last vestiges of a non-fascist version of Zionism that a “small Israel” could allow.
So, liberal Zionists: which side are you on?
But but but, i didn’t vote for Kamala because she wouldn’t do exactly as I wanted for the Palestinians! Things should be getting better for them, not worse, how could this be happening?
bUt iT DoEsN’T mAtTEr tHey ArE BoTh EqUalLy BaD On pALeStiNe
I mean, aren’t they? The only real difference I can see between Kamala and Trump on Palestine is that Kamala prefers a more respectable version of genocide. She supports genocide, but she just wants it to be done slowly and quietly. Trump is on board with a fast and overt genocide. Their policies lead to the same outcome; Trump is just a lot more honest about it.
Harris promised to do everything in her power to end the war in Gaza.
“This year has been difficult, given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza and given the civilian casualties and displacement in Lebanon, it is devastating. And as president, I will do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza, to bring home the hostages, end the suffering in Gaza, ensure Israel is secure, and ensure the Palestinian people can realise their right to dignity, freedom, security and self-determination,” Harris said to applause during a rally in East Lansing city of Michigan, home to 200,000 Arab Americans.
I can’t even begin to fathom the brain rot required to believe this… I can’t tell if it’s unfettered ignorance, or just propaganda.
Wow, they are really going to do it, aren’t they?
Are you surprised?
They’ve already BEEN doing it. And this was the critical failure of all those who argued that Trump would be better for Palestine than Harris. I voted for Harris, but I am not at all surprised this cost her the election.
Israel doesn’t need to do ANYTHING differently to complete its genocide of Gaza and the West Bank. It is already on that road, actively engaging in a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the Palestinians. And the Biden/Harris team have, through their inaction, fully endorsed this genocide.
Kamala was so comically bad on Palestine that the only hair-brained thing they could come up with to defend her stance was, “well…well…Trump will let the Israelis do a genocide EVEN FASTER!”
Kamala’s campaign slogan was, “a vote for Mussolini is better than a vote for Hitler!”
And then she was surprised when enough liberal voters in swing states stayed home to cost her the election. It turns out, there are plenty of people who will NOT turn out to vote for Mussolini just because Hitler is also on the ballot. They won’t vote for either of them; they’ll just say “a pox on both your houses!” and stay home.
Is a vote for Mussolini better than a vote for Hitler? Objectively, probably yes. Hitler objectively did a lot worse harm than Mussolini. But you also can’t be shocked when people refuse to hold their noses and vote for Mussolini, just because Hitler might be objectively worse. Ultimately, it’s your fucking fault for expecting people to vote for Mussolini.
I can’t speak for the nuances w.r.t Harris, Trump and US foreign policy in Israel/Palestine.
I can with full confidence say that not voting is definitely not going to achieve anything. The only justified case would be an attempt to highlight the illegitimacy of the voting process if there are no options at all. It’s relatively common for people to vote tactically on a consistent basis, although of course it’s understandable when people lose motivation to vote when they feel there are no good options.
You are ignoring how people actually think and live. You view voting as a utilitarian choice. Utilitarianism is not the only ethical system in existence. In fact, utilitarianism is exactly how histories worst autocrats justified their atrocities. Hitler himself ran on a platform of doing painful things that, he at least claimed, simply had to be done. The Holocaust itself was justified entirely from a “lesser of two evils” perspective. Hitler just had to convince the broader German populace that killing all the Jews was a necessary evil. Kill all the Jews or have the world taken over by godless Communists. That was Hitler’s central “lesser of two evils” message.
This is the fatal flaw of appeals to the lesser of two evils approaches. Yes, you “achieve more” by picking the lesser evil. But from many ethical perspectives, if both choices are objectively evil, and you can’t stop either, your only ethical choice is to not support either side. You’re still supporting evil, even if it’s the lesser evil.
No, I am basing this on real life experience. I.e. How I and many people vote and voted in my country, as well as other European countries that I follow.
This is a very practical matter. You feel like voting, you pick either your candidate or the best option that works. You’re not happy with that, don’t vote; but then you take responsibility for your (lack of) action. It’s as simple as that.
I don’t know where you are going with the utilitarianism and Hitler example. This is a massive stretch bordering on being rather insulting.
That is how YOU vote. A lot of people do not view it as a practical matter. They view their vote as an endorsement.
I don’t know where you are going with the utilitarianism and Hitler example. This is a massive stretch bordering on being rather insulting.
It really isn’t when we’re discussing fascists coming to power in the US. Godwin’s Law is dead. It is not a stretch when the reason Kamala lost is for literally supporting a genocide.
Kamala’s message was, “yes, I support a genocide overseas. But, my opponent supports it even more, and he will support crimes against humanity at home, while I will only support them overseas.”
Not just me. This is common in other countries. People most definitely do not treat their vote as an endorsement. You can believe me or not or say I am bad, but this is a matter of fact.
I was refering to your claim that tactical/pragmatic voting is somehow related to a deep philosophical commitment to utilitarianism which in turns is how you get Hitler. People don’t vote tactically out of some deep commitment to utilitarianism. Utilitarianism of course has its own set of problems, the stuff about Hitler in context of tactical voting is a ridiculous stretch; very condescending as well.
I don’t deny the possibility of US turning into a essentially a non-democratic oligarch state. If anything, research suggests authoritarians who come to power via somewhat democratic means, tend to solidify their rule in their second term if there is no pushback from society. So in a sense I agree with you.
Where I don’t agree with you are your justifications for not voting. As I said originally, I think the only fair reasoning is if there is nationwide protest to highlight the illegitimacy of an election/regime. Otherwise, there is no point in not voting.
Not just me. This is common in other countries. People most definitely do not treat their vote as an endorsement. You can believe me or not or say I am bad, but this is a matter of fact.
Being from an “other” country, having lived in another 3 of said “other” countries, an even having been involved in politics in 2 of them, what you wrote is complete total bullshit.
Plenty of people do indeed have an utilitarian view of their vote, but lots of people, maybe even most, treat their vote as an endorsement.
In fact from my own experience in various countries the utilitarian view is more common in countries with less Democratic voting systems with few actually electable choices, similar to the US (so, for example, Britain) whilst the endorsement view is more common in countries with highly Democratic voting systems with lots of choices (such as The Netherlands, which has Proportional Vote).
I’m sorry but whilst you having an utilitarian posture is perfectly valid, your idea that it’s the only valid posture and other people don’t have different postures is complete total mindless self-centred bollocks.
They’ve been signaling it for more than a year now.
$hill Stein voters will never admit they were duped. All those protests centered on Biden or Harris but NEVER on Republicans. Also it’s Congress that establishes foreign aid, but whatever. It must have felt so good to be entertained by your own anger.
What does pointing your anger at and blaming other voters accomplish? They did the right thing. Republicans want minorities dead and Democrats are holding them hostage. I’m glad Trump won. Now white Americans can feel a fraction of the suffering Palestinians are going through. That’ll make them care. That’ll make them fight.
If any civilian should be blamed, it’s you for accepting this lesser evil bullshit over and over and over again to the point that got the world here. If the only thing that comes out of your mouth is shit, then don’t talk.
Yeah, entertained by your own anger and the hubris to never be wrong… Gaza is fucked now, and apparently the West Bank, too. The lesser of two evils is all there is in this world, and you sit there celebrating that evil won (at the behest of quite a few minorities).
So how would you describe Gaza during the past 6 months? Everything in rubbles, hospitals barely functioning or not at all. People starving to death while the US still supplies the bomb to murder them more actively…
Especially the past month that Israel is just straight up ethnically cleansing northern Gaza withour any pretense left, murdering American citizens, attacking UN troops…
There is absolutely no indication that Harris would have turned things around. Because the points to turn things around kept passing and passing and she made a point instead to declare here steadfast support for Israel.
Blah blah blah Democrats… Tell us how awesome things will be in Gaza under Trump and a Republican controlled Congress…
Let’s gooooooooooooooooooooooo … Al Jazeera, Quatari mouthpiece for ISIS and every other antisemitic Islamic Jihadi group in the Middle East got the name wrong, that area is called Judea and Samaria.
Wonder if Abu Mazen is reconsidering his 19 years of intractability now, nah, the guys worth 100 million, must have earned that from all the hard work he did in the PLO building homes and farming crops.
“B Biden Seım!”
spoiler
“But Biden Same!”
Biden is the president, no?
Why are they waiting for Trump before enacting the plan?
Probably because they’re still razing Gaza and Lebanon currently along with fighting in Yemen, Syria, Iraq, and soon Iran. They don’t want to stretch our US resources too thin.
