The Israel Defense Forces releases surveillance camera footage from Shifa Hospital showing Hamas terrorists bringing a Nepali and Thai citizen who were abducted from Israel on October 7 to the medical center.

  • Doorbook@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Again people lose sight of the fact that regardless of hamas actions, that doesn’t justify the killing of thousands of kids and families that are taking shelter in the hospital.

    If anything, the medical staff and families are also hostages and they shouldn’t be killed either.

    People kept arguing about the tunnel and the hospital ignoring the genocidal killing of Palestinians.

    Tunnels or Hamas using the biggest and maybe only hospital Doesn’t justify the bombing of the hospital while people still getting treated from other bombing…

    • DolphinMath@slrpnk.netOP
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      1 year ago

      Let’s be accurate here. Thousands have died in Gaza as a result of this conflict, but Israel clearly did not kill thousands at Shifa Hospital.

    • blahsay@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Hamas surrenders, releases hostages and it’s done. But Hamas is the one pushing this war and they’re using the suffering of their own people to push propaganda - and people like yourself support their efforts.

        • teichflamme@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          They have literally no chance to win while causing great suffering on everyone around them.

          I don’t know how a sane person could advocate for HAMAS to continue their terrorist actions.

          • itscozydownhere@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Alas Lemmy is a shitshow in this regard. Not sure if Reddit is the same but the vibe here makes me barf

            • RGB3x3@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Nobody is supporting Hamas. They’re saying that there’s no justification for the genocide that Israel is engaging in.

              It doesn’t matter what either side has done when the response is to murder children. It’s all unjustifiable.

              • sock@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                well if an ant bite kills your mom and you go and poison bomb the whole colony, then the surviving ants come bite and kill your dad. are you gonna just let the ants keep killing your family or are you gonna poison bomb the whole colony again

                this is just an analogy (works for the nukes in japan too) at this point both sides are shitty and idek how to have a take about it anymore.

                • Aaroncvx@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Yes let’s reduce this conflict to ant extermination, can’t see any problem with that analogy…

                • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  as far as analogies go, comparing Palestinians to ants to be exterminated is a bit too on the nose, don’t you think?

                  • sock@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    then lets convert it to people then instead of ants

                    or is that hitting too close to home

          • Doorbook@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Put yourself in Hamas miltant shoe. Mostly now had lost family members, living since born in a prison, you cannot go to sea, or cross to Egypt or even other part of the country.

            What do you think Winning means for them ?

            • teichflamme@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              I guess for me it would mean to have at least some of my family members survive instead of dying pointlessly

              • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                They’re going to die pointlessly regardless of what they do. While I disagree with what they’re doing. I can’t exactly fault them for feeling powerless and lashing out. When people have nothing to lose. They don’t care how much anyone else loses either. And the Israeli government has the largest part of the blame on this. They helped Hamas come to power and use them extensively to justify their genocide. They don’t want Hamas to stop.

                • teichflamme@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  I think we should totally fault them for committing acts of terrorism. It does nothing to advance their cause.

                  While the Israeli government has fucked up, too, they are the one of the two parties that historically at least tried to negotiate a compromise.

                  I don’t believe for a second that they want the terror to continue, they’re not comic book villains. You’re selling your opinion as facts.

                  • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Netanyahu’s own cabinet has literally said on video that Hamas is an asset to them. Those are the facts. Netanyahu and his ministers have also done a lot to help Hamas as well. Mind you, I’m not defending Hamas. Fuck hamas. Palestine is not Hamas however. Most the people living in Gaza never voted for Hamas. And don’t support Hamas. And would love to get rid of Hamas. But they don’t have the power to. The people that have the power to would rather come in and slaughter innocent citizens of Gaza under pretense of going after Hamas. Creating more Hamas and the process rather than actually getting rid of Hamas. These are the facts. Netanyahu’s government’s actions are indefensible.

                    When the so-called rescue response has killed multiple times more than the initial terror attack. It is a terror attack in its own right.

          • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            It is certainly better to kill Israeli soldiers than it is to not kill them. Peace has been tried for over 30 years, but Israel has refused. It’s about time Palestine started fighting back. Genociders do not listen to anything short of warfare and terrorism.

            • teichflamme@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Israel has refused? Israel is the one side that negotiated and offered multiple solutions to the conflict lmao

                • teichflamme@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  Dude what are you on about? Israel offered land.

                  If you think what Hamas is doing now is the better course you’re just absolutely deluded

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          As opposed to the heavy resistance Hamas is currently putting up?

          If Israel wanted a genocide they could easily accomplish it. They clearly do not. This entire line of argumentation is beyond stupid.

        • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
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          1 year ago

          What genocide are you talking about? About the non-existent one against Palestine? How come they are under genocide when their population literally doubled over the last 70 years?

          Can I ask you whether you support Hamas and their actions? Do you consider them terrorists?

          • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Are you aware that Israel doesn’t need to literally kill every palestinian in order to succeed at genocide? Do you think the Holocaust wasn’t a genocide?

            I don’t give a fuck about Hamas, Palestine should fight back against the genocidal state by any means necessary. Nothing Hamas has ever even been claimed to have done is worse than genocide, so criticizing them at all is a logical fallacy. If palestine thinks incorporating terrorism into their war effort is necessary, I’m not arrogant enough to claim I know better. Every repercussion of this war on both sides is the fault of Israel, just like was true of Nazi Germany.

            • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
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              1 year ago

              I know that for genocide you don’t have to kill the whole population. Issue is that during the genocide, population goes down. During holocaust, 1/3 of the jews were killed and the population of jews was 30% smaller at the end of the genocide. This is not happening with Palestinians as their population literally doubled and there has never been a significant dip in their numbers. So no, Israel is not a genocidal state.

              In the second paragraph you are finding excuses for Palestine for fighting genocide (why by the way doesn’t exist). Hamas is a terrorist organisation which does not care about Palestine at all. They are only capable of killing Jews, tying opposition to cars and dragging them around. They were also the ones who broke the ceasefire and made the population of Gaza so radical that no one wants to have anything with them. Even PLO rather stays away from Gaza. I am honestly shocked how can you support terrorism and blame Israel for everything. You also ignore the fact that Hamas is not Palestine.

              • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                So if Israel kills 2 million Palestinians, but elsewhere 3 million are born, that is still genocide. Also, source on their population going up? You mean like world wide or something? Certainly not in Gaza. No, Hamas did not violate a ceasefire. Laying seige to an open air prison for 20 years does not count as ceasing fire. Hamas attacked Israel in retaliation to them getting worse and worse.

                • samokosik@lemmynsfw.com
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                  1 year ago

                  Israel never killed 2 million palestinians. The number is far lower. Stop spreading bullshit.

                  Population in Gaza went up throughout the time. It’s literally one of the most densely populated areas in the world (https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/gaza-strip/).

                  Furthermore, Gaza is not Israel’s open air prison and it was Hamas who broke the ceasefire.

                  I honestly see no reason in this discussion when you keep inventing random facts and when you support terrorist organizations. This is truly unbelievable.

                  • Thief_of_Crows@sh.itjust.works
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                    1 year ago

                    They haven’t killed them yet,but they very much intend to. If you’re not trolling, I highly suggest you do some research on this subject before speaking confidently on it. Basically everything you’ve said is incorrect. I can’t educate you to that degree in a couple comments. But if you are well meaning, and you can ditch your pro America/ pro imperialism bias, you will come to learn a lot about how the world works overall by doing a deep dive on this subject. But let me be very clear: Israel is the bad guy, and America is bad for supporting them. This is a fact. Genocide is always evil, no matter who is doing it.

        • DolphinMath@slrpnk.netOP
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          1 year ago

          I mean, I read through what you posted and it literally never says Israel bombed hospitals.

          HRW just cites a Tweet by “WHO in occupied Palestine” that is very non-specific while sounding specific.

          The relevant bits from the Tweet used as the primary source by HRW:

          “We are horrified at the latest reports of attacks on and in the vicinity of Al-Shifa Hospital, Al-Rantisi Naser Pediatric Hospital, Al-Quds Hospital, and others in Gaza city and northern Gaza, killing many, including children.”

          “Over the past 36 days, WHO has recorded at least 137 attacks on health care in Gaza, resulting in 521 deaths and 686 injuries, including 16 deaths and 38 injuries of health workers on duty.”

          • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            If I thought I knew better from my seat in a chair what was going on in Gaza than the humanitarian organizations on the ground there then I would simply log off and touch grass.

            • DolphinMath@slrpnk.netOP
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              1 year ago

              I mean, when you are calling people liars because they don’t agree with you, especially when your own sources don’t support what you say, I’m pretty sure that’s a sign you need to log off and touch grass.

              Is it possible Israel has bombed hospitals in Gaza? Certainly.

              Did you provide proof? No.

            • palal@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Clearly the UNRWA and the doctors at MSF don’t know what they’re talking about. Only the IDF does.

          • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 year ago

            Super cool how lying about hospitals not being bombed is “civil” but calling it out for the lie that it is somehow isn’t.

            • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
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              1 year ago

              Attacking the contents of an article is absolutely allowed, attacking other users is absolutely NOT allowed.

              So in your comment:

              “Liar. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/14/gaza-unlawful-israeli-hospital-strikes-worsen-health-crisis

              That’s fine. “Liar” is maybe a little strong, I personally would have allowed it, other mods may not have. Your mileage may vary.

              It was the personal attack against the other user AFTER that where you crossed the line and caused the comment to be removed.

              • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                1 year ago

                I disagree that saying someone is ignorant or that I would STFU if I was that ignorant is a personal attack. I also do not see how that is somehow more objectionable than lying about bombed civilians.

                  • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    1 year ago

                    I haven’t received notifications for any of those other warnings as far as I can tell, the links in the log won’t actually load for me. I also stand by them and encourage everyone to check out my forbidden opinions. It’s hilarious that one of them is literally a single sentence of me asking a mod for clarification.

                    Btw, why is lying about murdered civilians fine but calling someone ignorant is beyond the pale?

        • Argonne@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          You are the liar, or just an idiot. Your own source doesn’t say anything about the hospital itself being bombed

          • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            The Israeli military’s repeated, apparently unlawful attacks on medical facilities, personnel, and transport

            Hmm.