For this new year, I’d like to learn the skills necessary to self host. Specifically, I would like to eventually be able to self host Nextcloud, Jellyfin and possibly my email server too.

I’ve have a basic level understanding of Python and Kotlin. Now I’m in the process of learning Linux through a virtual machine because I know Linux is better suited for self hosting.

Should I stick with Python? Or is JavaScript (or maybe Ruby) better suited for that purpose? I’m more than happy to learn a new language, but I’m unsure on which is better suited.

And if you could start again in your self hosting journey, what would you do differently? :)

EDIT: I wasn’t expecting all these wonderful replies. You’re all very kind people to share so much with me :)

The consensus seems to be that hosting your own email server might be a lot, so I might leave that as future project. But for Nextcloud and Jellyfin I saw a lot of great tips! I forgot to mention that ideally I would like to have Nextcloud available for multiple users (ie. family memebers) so indeed learning some basic networking/firewalling seems the bare minimum.

I also promise that I will carefully read the manuals!

  • sunstoned@lemmus.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    3 hours ago

    if you could start again in your self hosting journey, what would you do differently? :)

    That’s an excellent question.

    If I were to start over, the first thing that I would do is start by learning the basics of networking and set up a freakin’ VPN! IMO exposing services to the public internet should be considered more of an advanced level task. When you don’t know what you don’t know, it’s risky and frankly unnecessary.

    The lowest barrier to entry for a personal VPN, by far, is Tailscale. Automatic internal DNS and clients for nearly any device makes finding services on a dedicated machine really, really, easy. Look into putting tailscale right into the compose file so you automatically get an internal DNS records for a service rather than a whole machine.

    From there, play around with more ownership (work) over what can touch your network. Switch from Tailscale’s “trusted” login to hosting your own Headscale instance. Add a PiHole or AdGuard exit node and set up your own internal DNS records.

    Maybe even scrap the magic (someone else’s logic that may or may not be doing things you need) and go for a plain-Jane Wireguard setup.

  • JackAttack@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    5 hours ago

    I think if you have a mini PC or something you don’t mins installing server specific OS on, proxmox VE is pretty great. It can be a bit of a headache depending on what you want to do but it also makes expanding your self hosting super easy/fun.

    Proxmox let’s you created virtual machines or containers and easily manage them.

    Currently I run a mini PC.(Beelinks are great for this and pretty cheap with more power than a raspberry pi)

    1. Proxmox VE as the operating system
    2. Jellyfin as my media server
    • looking to install home assistant and some others as well.
    1. Tail scale to use as a VPN into my network privately from anywhere.

    Simplest set up? No. But I also just started self hosting. You’re gonna hit some.headaches regardless but it’s also extremely rewarding and I’ve learned alot.

    Edit: if you’re only wanting to run one thing (say jellyfin) . A raspberry pi with tail scale and jellyfin is how I started. Works just fine.

  • revanite@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    6 hours ago

    I don’t know how to code, but I did a lot of internet searching on the commands to use (since I was also new to Linux). When I started to self host I was lucky the projects I wanted were popular enough that they had good documentation. Eventually after spinning up a lot of services I got the hang of the general structure of docker compose files and that’s the extent of any kind of new language I learned, haha

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    6 hours ago

    I don’t know a bit about programming. Yunohost is a great place to start for self hosting a variety of services. For Jellyfin/downloading, I use Swizzin Community Edition. I like both of these projects because neither uses Docker lol. I tried some Docker based setups but could never get my head around it. YMMV.

  • Lesrid@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    9 hours ago

    I would caution against self hosting email long term. It’s fine for the educational value but there’s a lot of annoying obstacles you can encounter repeatedly even after everything is established.

  • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    edit-2
    9 hours ago

    If you want to program something, the closest you’re gonna get to programming is Ansible and Bash scripts.

    You might want to get self hosting hardware like Synology or the like if you’re not ready to dig.

    Otherwise here’s some things you need to know:

    • Docker
      • Easy, consistent deployment of services in their own environments. Think a VM but with almost no overhead.
    • Docker Compose
      • Run docker containers with consistent configuration in files.
      • Connect various containers to each other on the same or different networks.
      • Get multiple containers to start together and talk to each other.
    • Systemd
      • Manage any service on Linux. If anything needs to start on boot, restart when crashed, start on timer, you want Systemd.
      • You can manage your docker compose containers lifecycle via Systemd.
    • NGINX/Apache/Caddy
      • A web server for reverse proxy. You’d probably need one at some point, especially if you want HTTPS. Your services get hidden behind it.
    • ZFS
      • Reliable redundant storage. You’ll need storage. Use ZFS with 2-disk redundancy.
      • Supports automatic snapshots for recovering from oopsies. E.g. deleted something or some software shat on your data.
      • Can use recertified disks from serverpartsdeals.
      • Can use USB disks or USB box with multiple disks. If you end up going the USB route, ask me for tested hardware.
    • Backup system
      • Something to do backup. There are many options.
    • Ansible
      • If you want to write code that describes your services and make them happen, you want Ansible. You write code (well YAML) and Ansible installs things, writes config files, sets up Systemd services, restarts things. It can be convenient especially if you have a lot of stuff and you want to be able to see all of your infrastructure in code in one place and be able to version it.
    • Prometheus
      • Monitoring your stuff. Is my backup service running? If not send me an email.

    Oh and use Debian or Ubuntu LTS.

    • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      9 hours ago

      Great summary!

      Why Debian or Ubuntu? (I have my own thoughts, but it would be useful to show even high-level reasons why they’re preferred).

      Re: Backup - Backblaze has a great writeup on backup approach today. I’m a fan of cloud being part of the mix (I use a combo of local replication and cloud, to mitigate different risks). Getting people to include backup from the start will help them long-term, so great you included it!

      • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        9 hours ago

        Predictable cadence, stable operation, timely updates, huge community and therefore documentation. You can get up to 5 years from an LTS release of Debian or Ubuntu. With Ubuntu LTS and Ubuntu Pro (free) you could theoretically run a machine without upgrading for 10 years. If you run workloads in containers, it doesn’t matter how old the host OS is. As long as it’s security patches, you can keep on trucking.

    • LiveLM@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      10 hours ago

      If you end up going the USB route, ask me for tested hardware.

      Send these my way chief

      • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        9 hours ago

        As briefly as possible:

        • Host side
          • If you use Intel, all is well.
          • If you use AMD…
            • Prior to AM5
              • Use an ASMedia PCIe USB card (StatTech, Sonnet)
              • X570 is especially bad, though I’ve had some success with B350, when using the chipset ports. The CPU ports are all bad. Small form factor PCs often only expose CPU USB ports. They work with single disk per port but if you peg a port with a multi-disk box, they crap out regularly.
            • Post AM5
              • Have only tested USB4 on X870 and it’s solid.
        • Client side
          • WD Elements / MyBook
            • If you get disconnects under load and you’re not on a shit AMD USB host, the USB-SATA controller is overheating. Open them and ahere a heatsink on it. Drill a hole in the case above it for better ventilation. Disconnections will stop. If you don’t want to deal with any of that buy the item below.
          • OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad
            • Well built, solid controllers, no issues over a year of testing. I have 2, hosting an 8-disk RAIDz2 and 2 hosting a 5-disk RAIDz2.
          • Terramaster
            • A friend bought a 6-bay and tore it down for me. It has the same controllers as the OWC in a similar topology. If it’s cheaper it might be OK. I can vouch for the OWC though.
          • Cables
            • Get name brand cables, ideally higher spec than what you’d need! They aren’t important for a single USB disk but running a 4-disk box can max out the port bandwidth. If the cable can’t handle it… errors.
        • LiveLM@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          6 hours ago

          Much appreciated 🙏
          Gnarly stuff with the WD’s huh? Unfortunately I think that’s what I’ll end up having to put up with since I can’t really find the other options for a decent price around here.
          Funny enough I was half-considering just using a bunch of WD Elements. You think the MyBooks might fare any better?

          • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            3 hours ago

            I used a mix of Elements and MyBook for years. Upon opening to heatsink, I didn’t see any significant differences between them. They use ASMedia or Jmicron, mostly ASMedia. The overheating issue depends on ambient temp and load. I’ve had one machine in a basement never experience them. Either way the solution is pretty straightforward and cheap. Once heatsinked, I haven’t had a problem.

            The cables they come with are good.

  • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    9 hours ago

    Documentation has been mentioned already, what I’d add to that is planning.

    Start with a list of high-level objectives, as in “Need a way to save notes, ideas, documents, between multiple systems, including mobile devices”.

    Then break that down to high-level requirements such as “Implement Joplin, and a sync solution”.

    Those high-level requirements then spawn system requirements, such as Joplin needs X disk space, user accounts, etc.

    Each of those branches out to technical requirements, which are single-line, single-task descriptions (you can skip this, it’s a nice-to-have):

    “Create folder Joplin on server A”

    “Set folder permissions XYZ on Joplin folder”

    Think of it all as a tree, starting from your objectives. If you document it like this first, you won’t go doing something as you build that you won’t remember why you’re doing it, or make decisions on the fly that conflict with other objectives.

  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    ·
    edit-2
    12 hours ago

    Persistence and reading comprehension.

    There’s no need to learn Python or any programming language to self host stuff, you just need to be able to follow blog posts and run some Docker commands.

    I’m a software dev and haven’t touched a single line of code on my NAS. Everything is docker compose and other config files.

  • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    8 hours ago

    Why are you wanting to use python for self hosting? Python is a programming and scripting language.

    There are two big things I would focus on. The first thing is networking, the OSI model and http basics. The other thing I would look into is Linux containers. If you can get both of these you are golden. Learn how to use and write docker compose files and then looking into building your own containers with Dockerfiles. You don’t really need to build your own containers but it is good for learning

  • dontblink@feddit.it
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    9 hours ago

    Enough focus to read documentation.

    That’s really it. If your purpose is just self hosting learning bash could also be helpful. And yeah Linux would be a great choice.

    But mostly, if you want to self host an instance of Nextcloud correctly and without having to deal with too many unexpected things, you have to read the documentation and do not rush. Most self hosted stuff isn’t “install and use”, because you’ll be your own server manager, and everything requires attention to be managed.

    Docker or not docker you will have to deal with configuration, settings, requirements and updates.

    So understanding how to read the docs/search and open github issues and taking time to read everything would be the most important skill for me.

    Also writing down what you are doing would indeed be helpful too, in order not to lose track of what you’re doing on your server. (Check out Ansible).

    Most apps out there simply need you to know about permissions, systemctl services and package managers.

    Try to always find a specific package for your distro for everything you install (eg. .deb for Debian), and have strategies when this is not possible (aka using a Python venv when installing python programs).

  • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    11 hours ago

    I self host many services without any coding languages under my belt. I use Unraid because I found it user friendly for a newb like me. The most important skills I needed were good data backup habits just in case I messed something up, a willingness to read and learn, and the persistence to try more than once.

  • Martin@discuss.tchncs.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    9 hours ago

    If you have a VM, there is no need for docker. Start by installing ssh. Enable public key auth. Disable password authentication. Set up fail2ban with ssh. Set up ufw. Set up nextcloud. Avoid hosting your own mail, that’s another level of complexity. If you really need it, try mailcow.

    If you have all that and didn’t touch a GUI on your way, you’re good to go.