• Ulrich@feddit.org
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      1 month ago

      If you could vet members in any meaningful way, they’d be doing it already.

      • Valmond@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Well, what doesn’t work, it seems, is giving (your) access to “anyone”.

        Maybe a system where people, I know this will be hard, has to look up outlets themselves, instead of being fed a “stream” dictated by commercial incentives (directly or indirectly).

        I’m working on a secure decentralised FOSS network where you can share whatever you want, like websites. Maybe that could be a start.

          • Valmond@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            Well no?

            What did I miss?

            I’m speaking broadly in general terms in the post, about sharing online.

            • Ulrich@feddit.org
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              1 month ago

              This conversation was about bots. Yours is about “outlets” and “streams”, whatever that is.

              • Valmond@lemmy.world
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                1 month ago

                If you have some algorithm or few central points distributing information, any information, you’ll get bot problems. If you instead yourself hook up with specific outlets, you won’t have that problem, or if one is bot infested you can switch away from it. That’s hard when everyone is in the same outlet or there are only few big outlets.

                Sorry if it’s not clear.

      • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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        1 month ago

        Most instances are open wide to the public.

        A few have registration requirements, but it’s usually something banal like “say I agree in Spanish to prove your Spanish enough for this instance” etc.

        This is a choice any instance can make if they want, none are but that doesn’t mean they can’t or it doesn’t work.

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          1 month ago

          I was referring to some of the larger players in the space, ie Meta, Twitter, etc.

          • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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            1 month ago

            Right, but they’re shit and don’t good things out of principle.

            We, the Fediverse, are the alternative to them.

            • Ulrich@feddit.org
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              1 month ago

              Doesn’t matter if they’re shit or not, they don’t want bots crawling their sites, straining their resources, or constantly shit posting, but they do anyway. And if the billion dollar corporations can’t stop them, it’s probably a good bet that you can’t either.

              • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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                1 month ago

                Because they want user data over anything.

                We want quality communities over anything.

                We can be selective, they go bankrupt without consistent growth.

                  • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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                    1 month ago

                    … Yes? What does that have to do with anything?

                    Those companies want an easy quick way for people to join because they want constant growth. That means not doing any sort of real checking or verification, it’s not because these billion dollar company cannot afford to, it’s because they don’t want to.

                    Their problems are not our problems.

    • C126@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      Vetted members could still bot though or have ther accounts compromised. Not a realistic solution.

    • juanito_the_great@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      There might be clever ways of doing this: Having volunteers help with the vetting process, allowing a certain number of members per day + a queue and then vetting them along the way…

    • Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
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      1 month ago

      Can you have an instance that allows viewing other instances, but others can’t see in?

    • TheFogan@programming.dev
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      1 month ago

      Isn’t that basically the same result though…

      Problem with tech oligarchy is it just takes one person to get corrupted and then he blocks out all opinion that attacks his goals.

      So the solution is federation, free speech instances that everyone can say whatever they want no matter how unpopular.

      How do we counteract the bots…

      Well we need the instances to verify who gets in, and make sure the members aren’t bots or saying unpopular things. These instances will need to be big, and well funded.

      How do we counter these instance owners getting bought out, corrupted (repeat loop).

      • Deceptichum@quokk.au
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        1 month ago

        No? The problem of tech oligarchy is that they control the systems. Here anyone can start up a new instance at the press of a button. That is the solution, not allowing unfiltered freeze peach garbage.

        Small “local” human sized groups are the only way we ensure the humanity of a group. These groups can vouch for each-other just as we do with Fediseer.

        One big gatekeeper is not the answer and is exactly the problem we want to get away from.

        You counter them by moving to a different instance.

        • TheFogan@programming.dev
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          1 month ago

          Concept is however that if a new instance is detatched from the old one… then it’s basically the same story of leaving myspace for facebook etc… we go through the long vetting process etc… over and over again, userbase fragments reaching critical mass is a challange every time. I mean yeah if we start with a circle of 10 trusted networks. One goes wrong it defederates, people migrate to one of the 9 or a new one gets brought into the circle. but actual vetting is a difficult process to go with, and makes growing very difficult.