- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.world
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24764351
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Systemd-boot and the service files and timers are pretty neat. Works fine as an init too I guess
Anything that lets me avoid the aberration that is Grub is great.
Those are the features I’m most interested in. Do you have a tutorial / resource you can recommend?
The man pages are, as with most Linux, technically sufficient. Just very hard to digest if I don’t have four hours of interrupted time.
From experience when I look for something “easier to digest” I end up spending more time tinkering and fucking about than just reading the man pages because the latter usually had a lot more context about the software and any other weird quirks.
I don’t hate systemd, but I prefer OpenRC and usually use it on my Debian systems. My preference is purely vibes based though, and I think most of the anti-systemd arguments in common usage are a bit silly.
My thoughts on systemd:
It’s one of the init systems of all time.
it makes my computer start. that’s pretty neat I think
I like the way I can make the timeout 0 so I don’t even need to think about it doing its job :)
You had me at “declarative”.
{insert IBM conspiracy here}
The Nazis will overtake us, one red hat at a time
Anyone got a good tutorial/guide fir SystemD?
Figure I may as well try to wrap my head around it if it’s supposedly going to murder me in my sleep or whatever.
Man pages
And if you’re not a 50 year-old Linux admin, Arch wiki.
Edit: don’t be put off by the Arch wiki if you don’t use Arch. 99% of the time, Linux is Linux, and you can follow it for just about anything other than package management.
That too but arch wiki sometimes doesn’t list all the possibilities the program can do or not, skill issue if you can’t read.
skill issue
I fully own that. But I like the logical ordering of the page sections on the wiki, and if anything is unclear or info is missing there–which it is pretty rare–I’ll hit up
manin desperation
journalctl and binary logging are annoying bullshit.
Amen.
I dislike journalctl more than systemd. And I don’t get what’s the advantage of systemctl vs previous solutions, why would that of all things make one reconsider.
I miss rc.local and crontabs. Now if you excuse me I have a cloud to yell at.
The only advantage I see is that it actually seems to keep a better handle on the status of the process/service. The old-style init scripts would often get out of sync and not realize that a process had died, or if they did they would repeatedly respawn a service that would just die again. Maybe that was less of a problem in later years than I experienced earlier, but it was there.
The whole init.d system felt very ad-hoc with every script working a little bit differently, giving different output styles, etc.
Fair enough.
Try to pass init=<path to any other init system> and you’ll see reduced RAM usage. Systemd is bloated.
Hell, pass
init=/bin/yesand you’ll see even more greatly reduced RAM usage!❯ ps aux | grep /usr/lib/sys | awk '{print $6}' | sed 's/$/+/' | tr -d '\n' | sed 's/+$/\n/' | bc 266516So that’s 260 MiB of RSS (assuming no shared libs which is certainly false) for:
- Daemon manager
- Syslog daemon
- DNS daemon (which I need and would have to replace with dnsmasq if it did not exist)
- udev daemon
- network daemon
- login daemon
- VM daemon (ever hear of the principle of least privilege?)
- user daemon manager (I STG anyone who writes a user daemon by doing
nohup &needs to be fired into the sun.pkillis not the tool I should have to use to manage my user’s daemons)
For comparison the web page I’m writing this on uses 117 MiB, about half. I’ll very gladly make the tradeoff of two sh.itjust.works tabs for one systemd suite. Or did you send that comment using
curlbecause web browsers are bloated?For another comparison 200 MiB of RAM is less than two dollars at current prices. I don’t value my time so low that I’ll avoid spending two bucks by spend hours debugging whatever bash scripting spaghetti hell other init systems cling onto to avoid “bloat”. I’ve done it, don’t miss it.
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@pewgar_seemsimandroid systemd has a lot of really good things…
But it’s too complex for init process and even too complex for service manager. Many solib dependencies causes long start, big memory footprint and possibe security issues. Many things might be implemented in some separate services, running with restricted permissions and optionally disabled.
initng was very similar to systemd, but was very simple and very much fasterWell, I think that if declarative configuration is what you’re looking for, the GNU Guix distro with its GNU Shepherd init system might be a more pertinent solution than SystemD
Hell yea +1 for shepherd.
Declarativity on steroids.
runit entering the chat
Aren’t all configs declarative?
some other init systems just use scripts for config, meaning you can just do whatever
Configs can do whatever too.
a config file can do only what the program that reads it allows. if the program that reads the file is just bash…
Limits and constraints are set by the program that reads the config, so no, not whatever. The only way that is a thing, if the program stated that the configs can do whatever, which at that point, is a script.
Also if a config can do what ever, then most likely that’s a security vulnerability.
Journald can pound a bag of dicks, it’s the worst.
After a decade of justified hatred against systemd and avoiding it whenever I can I finally found a reason why I might start using it, so I will
Still doesn’t mean that systemd is not bloatware with some horrible features built by a horrible main developer
Wanna explain?
Explain what part of it?
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