Love her or hate her (and my opinions are mixed), I must confess, JK Rowling was a huge influence on why I didn’t become a regular author. No shade on people who get what they paid for, but the young reader crowd is just so gimmicky, and not in a good way, and you see that with a lot of works like Percy Jackson and Twilight (but also predominantly with Rowling’s work). How do you compete in such a no-rules game?

So then let’s talk about one of the cores of the issue. People often have an epiphany when divulging into Harry Potter, and they think “huh, what’s the deal with this if that thing is how it is”. While noting that conflicts in literary analysis don’t always reflect something that doesn’t add up and that it could be a hiccup in details/semantics, the questions themselves don’t go away. And there’s nothing that matches the amount of those having to do with Harry Potter. What example of which strikes you as the most overlooked?

If Rowling herself ever notices that I’m bringing this up, let it be known I do think of her work as a reskinned Brothers Grimm in the universe of The Worst Witch and that I’m collaborating with another author (Samantha Rinne) whose work I would argue deserves Rowling’s prestige if Rowling’s work deserves it. Thanks (and here is where I run for the hills).

  • blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works
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    47 minutes ago

    Dumbledore is quite sure the Defense Against the Dark Arts job is cursed, at least by the time of HBP. Sooo… why didn’t he figure out how to break the curse?

    Being able to retain a skilled teacher would be pretty compelling. Is Dumbledore really so inferior to Voldemort in regard to curses that he couldn’t remove it? Or, if not, couldn’t he have created a new position with a new name, and new classes to go along with it? Call it Protection From the Dark Arts or Magical Defense or something.

  • Droggelbecher@lemmy.world
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    5 hours ago

    Why are there socioeconomic classes on a society that can literally create or at least multiply any resources at will?

  • LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
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    9 hours ago

    The spell system is wack, which opens up all sorts of plot holes. Want Harry’s invisibility cloak? Accio invisibility cloak! Boom, Harry’s visible and you’ve got his cloak. I doubt that Rowling ever played D&D.

    • EarlGrey@discuss.tchncs.de
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      4 hours ago

      This one is kind of accounted for. It’s implied there are protections that can be put in place to prevent it from being summoned with Accio.

  • GraniteM@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    There’s no fucking way that a kid raised from infancy like Harry was, in a abusive hateful household that treated him like dirt, would have enough strength of character to pull shit like the “Give it here, Malfoy” scene after having been out of the Dursley household for less than a couple weeks. Think about how the Dursleys would have reacted every time young Harry tried to stand up for himself. It would have been nonstop physical and mental abuse, all aimed at making him more subservient. It would take a miracle for a kid like that to be even vaguely functional as a person, and he certainly wouldn’t have the ability to stand up for himself, let alone others.

    • afronaut@lemmy.cafe
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      6 hours ago

      You’re not entirely wrong but I was a complete misfit and the black sheep of my family. I resisted their attempts to conform and homogenize me.

      I think I took a lot of inspiration from the stories I had access to from books, tv, film, and video games.

      Harry could read so I wonder if he also had access to books with inspiration characters. Also, what was his school life like?

  • lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de
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    12 hours ago

    I always cringe with the 7th book, where the trio is hiding and searching for horkruxes, and for some weird reason they don’t have enough food and are constantly hungry. From the reading perspective I understand, that the hunger is a device to generate conflict and make their time hard to endure, but it always baffles me.

    • It is mentioned, that Hermione pulled out all her muggle savings, so why didn’t she think about going to a supermarket and buying all the conserved food (cans and such) she can before they got on the run? She even mentions, that food can be multiplicated, just not created out of nothing.
    • When they are hiding they sometimes get to a store or supermarket. But that only brings food for like a few days max. Why not more?
    • And when there where too many dementors in an area to get more food, why not going really far away. We know Hermione was at least one time in France with her parents. Why not going there? Probably the war-like situation was not spread over the complete world that seriously. At least we are not hearing any of that in the books (JKR probably didn’t even thing much about international things when writing this)
  • aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    16 hours ago

    I don’t know if it’s a plot hole per se, but when do they learn maths and science? If they’ at Hogwarts for 7 years, and they only learn magic, when exactly do they learn the usual subjects? Are they just stupid because they don’t learn them?

    • MY_ANUS_IS_BLEEDING@lemm.ee
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      7 hours ago

      They don’t. That’s all considered Muggle stuff that they don’t need to know because they can just magic their way through life.

    • GoodEye8@lemm.ee
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      8 hours ago

      While I think that can be explained away with the idea that the magic is so OP they don’t actually need to know science. To use the Rowlings own tidbit as an example, why bother with toilets when you can simply magic away your shit.

      And that also leads to what IMO is the biggest plot point nobody really thinks about. That there’s a secret society of magic users who almost exclusively use magic, and the “muggle” society has no idea of its existence.

      Think about all the things we’ve discovered. Electromagnetism is pretty much magic, we figured that out. Atoms are pretty much magic, not only did we figure out atoms we figured out what atoms consist of. Einstein predicted black holes, something so out there that even Einstein doubted his prediction, we later discovered and modeled it. We can literally come up with absolutely insane ideas and then come up with ways to prove or disprove those ideas. There’s no chance we wouldn’t figure out the existence of magic and a secret society if we saw glimpses of something that makes us go “hmm, that’s interesting”.

      You could argue that they use magic to hide magic from us, but they’d have to know about what we are doing to make sure we don’t accidentally stumble into discovering magic. But Arthur Weasley makes it pretty clear wizards don’t understand how our world works. They don’t know what we’re doing so their secret society is literally at the mercy of us not just noticing it.

      So the secret of society pretty much exists on the premise that we’re too stupid to figure out Magic, but smart enough to create the society we have.

      • dustyData@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        Not defending anything in particular. But at least in the books themselves it is explicit that magic is not a thing to figure out. You’re either born capable of accessing magic or you aren’t. A muggle can’t reason their way into acquiring magic. The book’s entire universe is based on the divide between those forced to exist within the confines of natural laws (muggles) and those capable of bending and breaking said rules to basically achieve whatever (wizards).

    • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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      15 hours ago

      I think like the vast majority of them are just dumb and some are like savants. Everyone other than like a couple people in the book are just copying magic routinely. Only Snape and a few other characters are cooking up any new magic theory.

  • Hudell@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    16 hours ago

    Not really a plot hole, but a missed opportunity. Dumbledore’s Phoenix could have shown up to help Snape - putting Harry in a mindfuck state as he would know both that Snape killed him and that Snape was loyal to him.

  • Tamo240@programming.dev
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    19 hours ago

    The plot has already being discussed at length. I want to talk about quidditch.

    Quick recap, in quidditch, scoring goals scores 10 or 20 points, catching the snitch scores 150 points, and ends the game. This effectively means that the only way a team can catch the snitch and lose is if they are over 150 points behind.

    As a result of this, logically the seaker should not attempt to catch the snitch if the score is this unfavourable, meaning the game is always decided by the seaker, and nothing anyone else is doing remotely matters. Remember also we see the audience is rarely able to see what the seeker is doing from the stands.

    Now you may say “what about the world cup in book 4, Krumm catches the snitch and still loses”. This can only be attributed to Krumm got mad at his team, or maybe bored, otherwise he should just wait and see if his team can score a goal or two. If the other team’s seaker catches the snitch you lose anyway, so why even try until it’s going to win you the game? Maybe he was showing off to Hermione.

    We also know for certain that this happens very rarely, as the odds given to the twins by Ludo Bagman are very high, leading to a big payout. Therefore quidditch is entirely decided by something that happens well out of sight of the audience, and would be terrible to watch or play.

    As an aside, the rules around catching the snitch leading to a draw are never mentioned, but I assume they have some penalty shootout system

    • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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      18 hours ago

      Additionally there could be games where the snitch is caught within the first minute of the game. Ending it early and everyone can go back home.

      For a game theory perspective that’s what every team should be focusing on, instead of faffing about with the clubs.

      • Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        15 hours ago

        Isn’t this one actually addressed ? I remember them releasing the snitch after a few minutes but maybe I plugged that obvious hole in the rules myself

        • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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          15 hours ago

          I’m not sure, it’s not in the wiki on quidditch, which is frankly more research I planned to do in the subject.

          Even so, when it’s in play it makes sense for all players to stop doing what they do and help the seeker out.

  • Dasus@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    Like a hundred or so teenagers of whom a large part went to some regular school and had regular non-wizard friends would suddenly either completely cut off contact as if devoured by a cult or dead or the kids are assumed to just successfully lie about not being fucking magic.

    It’s utterly ridiculous. Imagine if it was hidden from the Dursley’s somehow and that Harry spent summers there bullied by Dudley. That he would never snap and tell or do magic?

    Or that people like Dudley would keep their mouth shut for their entire lives?

    Nah.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        In Harry’s year, there were 4 Muggleborns (Hermione, Dean, Justin, Sally-Anne) out of 40 students.

        That’s 10 percent.

        Plus half-wizard families would also have family wondering where their nephew has disappeared to.

        Also, does that mean that full wizard kids aren’t in any government register, so that they don’t technically have citizenship, and they just never interact with the world?

        It’s utterly ridiculous that there would live two communities on top of each other with so Lucy much blending yet zero communication.

        What, pens/pencils don’t work in Hogwarts, or even if they don’t work there, they still do their scribing with comically large feather quill and ink? Quill and ink work, but… fountain pens wouldn’t?

        No wizard would be greedy enough to completely abuse the fact that their gold money is an infinite money glitch if you sell it as bullion.

        And I remind you, these peoples foremost expert on muggle technology doesn’t know what a rubber duck is for. Can’t he just walk into a library and read a basic book?

        One just has to make the massive leap for people’s forgetting about their relatives and what muggle-born / half-wizards might actually want to do. Like you had personality and aspirations at 11. Prolly not moreso than magic schools, but after graduating, are you really gonna go back to a world which doesn’t have pencils and doesn’t allow you to read a dictionary when the first 11 years of your life you loved everything technical.

        Is your info from that time now banned? Are you banned from just returning to a muggle life? Or can’t you do magic if you do? Not even around your siblings who all know? (There’s 8 of them btw. 8 muggle siblings you have who aren’t wizards but know about magic.)

        And we’re supposed to think shit like that doesn’t happen.

    • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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      15 hours ago

      Who would believe him? If Dudley or his family started claiming there were wizards out to get them they would go to the Looney bin.

      They can also mind wipe people. In Fantastic Beasts Newt obliviates all of New York City with the Thunderbird.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        Life’s change and people move on. But people who completely vanish, come back on holidays, can’t say shit (as if they wouldn’t, they definitely do as we know from the characters) so spread the secret.

        And this happens for hundreds of people. Every year. For centuries.

        And one assumes those kids never return to muggle jobs either. No heir to an industrial fortune who suddenly is born a wizard and vanishes? Security can’t follow them to school. Even if they come to obliviate the private security, since the head of the muggle department at the ministry doesn’t understand what a light bulb is, they’re not going to understand what surveillance cameras are.

        So yeah. It just wouldn’t work unless you make that assumption. Suspense of disbelief, sure, but that is the bit that makes zero sense and os covered with utter bullshit logic that doesn’t remotely work.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        In Fantastic Beasts Newt obliviates all of New York City with the Thunderbird.

        “Looney bin”

        Sounds like you’re really read up on current terminology.

        We’re not talking one single person. We’re talking all the muggle-borns or half wizards. There’s dozens every year. And all them magically vanish, never to be seen or heard or when they are, they have no excuse for where they have been. And if someone asks too many questions, suddenly they act like they’ve had a stroke and can’t remember things. But proper journalists have backups.

        Do you think none of the muggle-borns would want to show off to their former non-wizard friends, even with “don’t tell anyone”?

        You don’t think there’s a single wizard desperate enough to utilise magic to make real world money and that they’d never caught?

        NY obliviating? That’s some extra convenient writing considering how obliviating works in the books. (read = shit writing) They even almost hang a lantern on it for that reason, out loud questioning will it even work and them saying “ofc it’s a deus ex machina we’ll hope for the best”

        That movie highlights the kind of shenanigans one slightly awkward but extremely moral and “want to hide the magic” wizard can get into. Even if we imagine the tiny group of people the Ministry has could be able to address some, the head of the Muggle things in the ministry doesn’t know what a lightbulb is. How would they ever understand the nuances of video-surveillance?

        Maths study shows conspiracies ‘prone to unravelling’

        A few thousand people can’t sustain a conspiracy. There’s 100 000 wizards in the Quidditch finals.

        This is genuinely the most glaring and moronic flaw in the whole series and you just got to accept it. Despite there being hundreds or thousands of people like Petunia who were jealous as fuck and know about the existence of magic for sure and just don’t do anything about it. OK. Like if you had a brother who had been invited to Hogwarts, you’d just not even talk or think about magic, ever.

        Petunia is even shown to cry to Dumbledore themselves that they want to go as well. Because it’s the natural reaction. All the characters act naturally but the story world couldn’t exist it that behaviour was assumed from other people as well. (Which isn’t hard to understand nowadays vis-a-vis who the author is; “rules for thee but no rules for me”)

        • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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          13 hours ago

          “Looney bin”

          Sounds like you’re really read up on current terminology.

          Why use current terminology when the book was written in the 90s and was set in the 80s/90s?

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
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            13 hours ago

            Idk, to have basic human respect for people with mental disorders?

            Do you think when people discuss say, hypothetically Hogwarts having trans people, they use the period terminology? Because having lived in the 90’s, I’d like to see you use that terminology while discussing a hypothetical trans-character in HP.

              • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                11 hours ago

                Now. And is this JK Rowling with us in the room right now?

                No.

                And we’re still having a hypothetical discussion about her books, and used the argument “my language would be okay in the 80s and early 90s, so…”

                We could have a fanfic with set in the same time. Would you use 90s slurs for trans people if insured this thread was about such a fanfic?

                Or you discuss RDR2, do you consider it okay using the n-word?

            • Randomgal@lemmy.ca
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              11 hours ago

              Bro you’re taking a children’s book, made by an asshole, way too seriously.

              • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                11 hours ago

                I’m upset at someone dismissing the struggles of the mentally ill, not at some silly conversation about HP.

  • loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works
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    24 hours ago

    Aside from the very much sung “why didn’t they use the time turner then”, there’s a bunch of “Why didn’t they stop Voldemort then” that could be inserted at various points of the story; when you consider that:

    1- Albus had a spy within the death eaters in the person if Severus Snape.

    2- In “the Order of the Phoenix”, while Voldy could take Albus 1 on 1, he retreated when more people arrived, implying they could gang up on him.

    3- Sure they couldn’t kill him without the horcruxes, but another important plot point is that they have a magical prison, staffed with creatures that absorb your life force. Sure, Azkaban seems like a joke considering the number of prisoners breaking out of it… But in the case of Sirius he could escape transformed as a dog because they didn’t know he was an animagus and hadn’t taken the relevant measures, and the rest were broken out from outside. Certainly, they could hold Voldy with the right measures. Albus was monitoring Voldemort and the death eaters activity the whole time. In the first book/movie, he even had him within his school, unknowingly sure, but he knew Voldemort was likely to try and get his hands on the philosopher’s stone, and was just like “don’t worry, it’s well protected”, not even trying to set up an ambush, or to pursue Voldemort once he knows he was there.

    • lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de
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      13 hours ago

      To be fair: With Dumbledoors measures with the mirror of erised they had kind of a trap. The philosophers stone obviously hidden behind some challenges, that are not really that strong, so an attacker would think the last one would also be easy. But there you only got the stonen if you didn’t want to use itn ruling out people with nefarious intentions (Dumbledoor didn’t know about Voldy in Quirrel at that time). To bad some first graders thought they needed to safe the stone. Quirrel would have been still thereuwhen Dumbledoor arrived, but Harry gave him and Voldy the opportunity to get the stone from him instead from the mirror. A bit of captain hindsight here. He maybe should have thought of that. Or maybe it is understandable that he didn’t foresee Harry fucking Potter

      • loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works
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        12 hours ago

        Yeah, but that’s only really a trap is there’s a way to keep him from escaping. Voldemort escaped pretty easily; had Harry not been there, he could’ve tried for some time, figured out the trick and then just left to re-evaluate his options.

        While not explicitly stated, it’s possible that that’s actually what he did: If he’d figured out Harry, Ron and Hermione had been snooping around and had found the room with Fluffy, Quirrel might’ve willingly dropped hints so that they’d check, let the music play longer than he needed to so that they’d know someone was trying to take the stone and he could lure them all the way down.

        • lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de
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          6 hours ago

          Point taken - it really doesn’t seem thought through by Dumby. But I think its funny, that Harry is basically ruining Dumbledoors plan of protecting the stone, because he cannot stop being a hero. Yeah, thanks Harry for “saving” the stone from Voldemort -.-

  • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Well, we’ll have to ignore the gaping plot-induced stupidity on display by practically everyone throughout the entire story, because without it the books would have been quite short. So setting that aside, because I’m sure it’s been trampled to death already.

    The complete unwillingness for the wizarding world to utilize even basic Muggle technologies and knowledge is absolutely baffling. It’s insinuated that they don’t need Muggle things because they can substitute them with magic which is “equivalent.” This is self-evidently hokum.

    These idiots still write with quills, read by candlelight, don’t use the Internet, and despite having literal magic at their disposal their communication systems (such as they are) are laughably inferior to common Muggle ones even in the context of the time period in which the story is supposedly set. Come on. Owls?

    Magic users demonstrate basically no understanding of science and are all demonstrably the worse off for it, still having a nearly medieval understanding of how the world works, and rely on magic as a crutch to weakly compensate. This even when it’s obvious to an outside observer that a basic piece of mundane knowledge or technology would be not only easier and significantly less dangerous than whatever the fuck their homegrown solution is, but also more effective. This is treated in supplementary works by Rowling as if it’s a point of pride by wizards and witches who deliberately eschew anything of Muggle origin – even if this means going to great lengths to shoot themselves in the foot simply to maintain that attitude of aloofness, which only serves to underscore the sheer stupidity apparently heavily ingrained into magical culture.

    The fact that neither Harry nor none of the other Muggleborn kids are puzzled by this, nor why they apparently deliberately fail to bring so much as a common yellow #2 pencil with them from the mundane world out of sheer habit makes zero sense. (And yes, this is touched upon in the already recommended Methods of Rationality.)

    Magical consumer goods are also seriously customer hostile. Who the fuck thought even half of those things were a desirable marketable product? Is there an evil wizard version of Willy Wonka lurking around someplace? Think of all the pocket change a Muggleborn lad could make by bringing a case of jelly beans with him to school to sell to his classmates where you don’t have a one in twenty chance of one of them tasting like earwax. Or chocolates that can’t hop away from you when you aren’t looking. I mean, for fuck’s sake.

    And following from the above, everyone is so concerned about the damage to the karma done by the unforgivable spells, or whatever, which is supposedly why nobody goes to all-out war with the Death Eaters. But then no one gets the brain cells together to realize that Voldemort and especially his goons are surely vulnerable to conventional weapons. All anyone has to do is camp in a corner with a shotgun and then call out they-who-must-not-be-named, enticing them to appear to simply get Swiss Cheesed before having clue one what’s going on. Maybe Voldy can’t be truly killed by any form of physical harm, but the entire premise of the story begins with the observation that he can be put to considerable inconvenience, putting him down for quite some time, and thus buy the protagonists plenty of time to figure out his stupid riddles and find all his horcruxes. Then simply drive over whatever’s left of him with a steamroller.

  • hansolo@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    Small scale: The lack of constant mean pranks. You can’t tell me that shitbag kids aren’t polyjuicing everyone into dogs and donkeys 20 times a day, and thats the PG version. Ain’t no way dudes aren’t making their dicks 30 feet long for fun.

    Large Scale: Wizarding culture is tremendously trite, shallow, and terrible. They are the worst of humanity with super powers, all because of …genetics? It’s still super privledge eugenics at the end of the day, and Voldemort is just making daylight decisions about everything that the non-DeathEaters blithly comply with every single day.

    • lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de
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      12 hours ago

      I always thought of the polyjuice to be a restricted substance, that you can’t easily buy. And making it yourself is not easy and takes like 2 months. That would severily limit the cases. I mean, like how often do school kids in our world put drugs in food or drinks of their classmates? I’m sure there are some cases, but probably nothing wide spread

      • graff@lemm.ee
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        11 hours ago

        It indeed is restricted. They had to go through a lot of trouble to brew a batch