Yeah, advocating for literal murder, e.g. of someone who chooses to own stock, we have not only a toxicity problem but overall a quite shocking divergence from the experiences visible on other more moderated platforms, such as X (which also advocates for murder these days I hear, but only in such matters as are soon to be approved by The State, like giving cops free reign to murder anyone they choose - but only lasting for one hour, bc otherwise that would be just ridiculous, you know!?🤪🫠).

On the one hand, getting out from under the thumb of regulations is fantastic, compared to not being able to do thus at all. While on the other, people can be so unfriendly and waste so much of our time having to sift through such nonsense (as is sponsored by The Other, Opposing State).

So yeah, I guess it is a bit like 4chan? (Not that I’m speaking from personal experience, but from the stories told about it, it shares similarities?:-P) But then again, Internet 1.0 did not offer the ability to federate as we now can, so actually I think it’s a step forward, more than merely back - yes we are rolling back some features that were quite bad (corporate sponsorship), but we get to keep most of the good - e.g. the ability to view images and even videos directly inside the post without having to leave the site to view them elsewhere and then return. We have the best of both of those worlds!?:-)

That’s so cool! Do be careful but yeah, it is such a wonderful experiment. On the one hand, if I didn’t have access to Lemmy, I would never have found out that e.g. after Biden forbade the railway workers from striking (two Christmases ago iirc?), he worked with them for MONTHS to get them all the things they needed e.g. time off with paid sick leave. The corporate media (for the most part) refused to cover it, probably bc it was boring and they couldn’t sell ads as effectively with such content as well as something that bleeds and thus leads.

On the other hand, Lemmy also allows disinformation campaigns to spread too, e.g.:

(For one it ignores how both Russia and China are doing genocide - relevant bc on Lemmy.ml where it was posted you are only allowed to criticize such things when the “other side”, meaning Western capitalism, does it, so like you can say how the USA aids Israel’s genocide but you can not say how Russia is doing similarly in the Ukraine, or China to the Uyghurs, etc. - and it ignores that Trump has said that he will write Israel a blank check to do even more, instead seemingly pointing blame at Biden’s administration for doing genocide, all without ever saying so explicitly but that seems the implication, given the timing of it being released just prior to the USA election? Oh well, surely anything that fosters apathy among the voting populace could never influence the outcome now could it…? Edit: And the list of criticisms just goes on and on and on and on like that - still another is how it ignores how most “humanitarians” and even most PEOPLE in the USA are not okay with the genocide that is going on, so how is that not a strawman to say that “none such exist” as that would want to stop it, as distinct from the leadership that might also want to stop it, yet isn’t doing so, thus doesn’t seem to want to stop it bad enough, though it can NOT be inferred from that, imho at least, that human rights don’t exist here at all, or are not cared about at all - that seems quite hyperbolic to me, and again ignores how Trump will now do more than Harris would have.)

Setting politics aside now:-).

You might point people to !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca, and post to that community yourself anything that you want a new user to know?

Also check out PieFed - it lacks significant polish, e.g. if you tag my username there like @openstars@piefed.social I will not receive a notification bc that feature hasn’t been implemented yet, but especially for a student has such great resources so it at least is something to be very aware of and kinda show off what the Fediverse has to offer now plus where it is heading in the future. Especially as so many people want to get away from the “tankies” - e.g. Lemmy.World announced wanting to support a different project, Sublinks, though that one might be stalled at this point:-(.

Do let us all know how your experiment turns out? I mean make a post somewhere (and please tag me to make sure I see it!:-) so we can all be enriched by your efforts and the fruit that they bring:-). If you need a suggestion for a community, maybe… !fediverse@lemmy.world or !fedigrow@lemm.ee.

For people that enjoy using Arch btw Linux, we’re good yeah. Although occasionally some of us will die or whatever, and we need to have some level of growth or else accept that we will pretty much just shrink from now onwards. i.e., people talk as if we will go mainstream, or rather as if content will spring up magically from nowhere. If we want the small niches like Reddit has, we would need the userbase first. And to get that, we’d have to ditch our toxicity issues, make the UI more functional, and above all else make better moderation tools. Which I am doubtful will happen as the Lemmy devs seem happy with their current pacing and direction of changes - that’s 99% fine with me btw, as it’s theirs to do with whatever they please; though I am all the more happy to now see the likes of PieFed grow much quicker, even though it started out so very much further behind.

Fair point about PieFed being extremely tiny, and there are only 3 of them that are open to the public to join (https://join.piefed.social/try/) - though I am somewhat surprised to see the number of users for Mbin being so low. Yeah, I suppose they must be going back to Reddit, or perhaps Bluesky, or something else.

I am not sure how much to worry about the number of instances - on the one hand the long-anticipated 0.19.6 software release came out just today, which should fix the federation issues with Lemmy.World for many of them. On the other hand, smaller instances weren’t likely to want to pull down the entirety of the Fediverse to begin with, as an actual multi-user one (even if on the small side, like Discuss.Online or Aussie.Zone) would, plus once gone, wouldn’t we expect them to never come back, i.e. regardless of the software release today? So whatever turned them away… it would have been interesting to have known (though introverts would be the last to have offered such:-).

Not… entirely. In March we had 54k Monthly Active Users, while now we have only 45k, that’s a not-entirely-insignificant drop of 17% of users. Also, personally I’ve created some alts during that time-frame, so if others did similarly… the real drop could have been much larger.

Ofc, it could have been that people simply dropped their older alts and are now happy with fewer alts but the same number of people - but that gets to that very old argument that Galileo had with others about whether the moon was perfectly smooth (due to spiritual implications) or not: he observed that it was not, though others raised their objections and tried to counter with the notion that perhaps there were mountains on the moon… but that if so, surely the valley regions were covered with glass, so that the moon retains the property (again, for reasons of spiritual purity) of being a perfectly spherical object?

Ofc you can guess what Galileo said to that: surely there must indeed be glass on top of the valley regions, so that they fill in the height of the mountains with an equal height of the glass valleys, which we cannot see b/c they are made of glass, <eyeroll>, yes indeed “surely” that “must” be the case - but also, in addition to that, there is EVEN MORE glass on top of the mountains, height proportional to how tall they are, and while we cannot see that material either, that is what is causing the differences in shadows, which he could measure with his spyglass that he pointed upwards into the heavens.)

Moral of that fun story: we can conjecture such matters all day long, and how fun that would be for both of us! But at the end of the day, all we have are the facts and numbers in front of us, however imperfect they may be:-).

That said, these numbers may particularly be bad, e.g. if anyone left Lemmy and went to Mbin and/or PieFed, then I think they would not be counted in those charts? I am not 100% certain about that, or much of anything really, but pretty darn close b/c of how the “software” field seems to work on that site, with the other buttons like List and on a particular chosen instance to look at more details, the Main Data tabulation (and see e.g. https://mbin.fediverse.observer/piefed.social, click to expand the Main Data, and that JSON output has “softwarename”: “piefed”, but nothing at all with the text string “Lemmy” there).

The total number of Lemmy instances has also dropped 24%.

Although the total number of both posts and comments has gone up rather than down - so we see a lot more activity, from a significantly smaller number of people. I wonder how sustainable that is though, e.g. next year won’t be an election year in as many countries as this one was. Overall I am worried about the health of the Lemmyverse, though less worried than ever before about the health of the overall Fediverse b/c of the newer software alternatives that have and are still coming:-).

Can you send us an example of such a post as you are talking about? B/c I am not seeing it. (Edit: oops that was old and I forgot to remove this sentence - see below.)

The most recent content on lemmy.blahaj.zone that I see from sh.just.works is from 2 hours ago: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1688895/11494679, so those two definitely are federated (I checked and don’t see either one in the others’ instance blocked list). However, as expected the user https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/CDRMITTENS@sh.itjust.works has no content more recent than 7 months ago. They both say that they are running the same Lemmy version - 0.19.5.

Searching… seems not to work for these style of posts, b/c while the searches pull up zero results for common things like a single space, a colon (inside a URL?), the single letter “a”, etc., there actually are such posts, e.g. https://sh.itjust.works/post/27811262.

Also, !noncredibledefense@lemmy.blahaj.zone only has 10 posts total, but none are from cdrmittens.

So yeah I think you are correct - the old content that was already there in Blåhaj Lemmy’s database remains, for their content posted to !noncredibledefense@sh.itjust.works, but after the ban anything that the Blåhaj Lemmy tries to pull in for that user just gets discarded, and not added to the database. i.e. it has the old but not the new content, for that user. Most likely votes as well as posts or comments (b/c why would that be different?). Though since !NonCredibleDefense@sh.just.works has nothing to do with lemmy.blahaj.zone, they can continue to post on their own home instance - it is only Blåhaj Lemmy that will not see those posts, by design, b/c of the ban.

I hope that makes sense!:-)

I don’t know all the answers - nor have any of my own alts ever been banned so I did not have an occasion to look until now, but I see where the account is not removed, and in fact can be un-banned later. Here’s an irl example: https://lemmy.ml/u/sagxd (which we can see ourselves without an account on that instance - plus it is also visible from elsewhere e.g. https://lemmy.world/u/sagxd@lemmy.ml). You can read the story behind that incident in https://lemm.ee/post/45204357.

Most of the time how it seems to show up in the modlog, at least whenever it happens from lemmy.ml, is a slew of being banned from every community on the entire instance. Although there does seem to be a modlog entry to do differently (note the presence in the pull-down menu of “banning from site”), which despite not seeming to be (commonly? ever?) used from lemmy.ml, is indicated as often being used from other instances.

In particular I don’t know if a banned account can give or receive voting - I think I’ve heard people say both ways. I’ve saved your post and I’ll check back in later to see if someone can say with some actual knowledge what is going on!?:-)

Yeah unfortunately it’s not quite ready for mainstream yet. I’ve noticed over the last several days that I’ve been using it a bunch of small UI things that would really frustrate someone without a high level of tolerance to such. e.g. you get a notification telling you that you have a message, you click it, but there’s no message; so you do a control-F to try to find it… nope, still no message; next you have to hunt through the entire page for every “expansion block” and “Continue thread” (which takes you to another page) and those “auto-collapse” (based on comment threshold), and I disabled “auto-hide” but surely that might really be a problem if there’s a Notification for something that becomes impossible to see later without changing your configuration settings.

For extremely basic things it’s fine… mostly. Just never edit your messages and someone will be fine. I say that b/c you can’t edit comments in-line in the page where they are at, and once you are done editing one, it doesn’t take you back to it but rather to the OP thread instead. Whereupon again you have to hunt for your comment all over again as mentioned above. Which is especially annoying when you have to do it multiple times, b/c there is no Preview feature to let you know what is coming after you submit it - did you insert a space between your [alttext] (link here)? did you mess up your "quoting" rules? does an image not render?

(the above on purpose:-)

On the other hand, they can allow YouTube embeds without having to wonder what is on the other side of that sus-looking link and click and leave the page. And personal instance blocks - that actually work - and categories, and like it will tell you, for every comment, both the time something was posted and the time it was last edited, woot!:-) There’s just a ton of fantastic features, more so than Lemmy in many ways, and yet at the same time less too - if that makes any sense at all.

But then again, more people know how to code in Python, so I hope it will catch up soon:-). That might even be what we’re seeing now - the core UI needs to be not monkeyed around with by a bunch of people all working at cross-purposes, but then all these nice little additions could each be someone’s side project? But they need to get the core working too.

Not really. Well, instance admins can defederate from it, but as a normal user you have a pitifully small list of all not easy choices. First, a couple apps like Sync and Connect can (but for them I don’t know if they would block e.g. images from there); second is move to PieFed or Mbin (I moved to PieFed myself, but could not find this post there so had to come back to my previous account, as an alt now I guess, to be able to reply here - so it’s got issues); third is move to one of only 3 tiny instances that I’ve ever heard of that have blocked it; fourth is spin up your own instance, and defederate from them. The long version.

Edit: oh, there is a basic Lemmy “instance block”, which blocks only communities on those instances - but not users, their posts, replies, votes, etc., and even that much was rolled back somewhere between 0.19.3 and 0.19.5 so that they can now send notifications to you. So it is very misleading named. The last one there is what almost caused me to leave the Fediverse entirely when I accidentally replied to one comment in ChapoTrapHouse and another somewhere in lemmygrad.ml. The replies to each kept coming in for WEEKS and WEEKS, long after I wanted it to end. The rule “remember the human” seemed to not apply to them.

For real, there are people who will volunteer to do that, to help a community get off the ground. See !fedigrow@lemm.ee.

It is a niche topic, here, where we all use Linux btw (or at least we keep our mouths shut if we don’t, for fear of being mobbed:-D).

We talk about what we want to talk about here. Linux, memes, TV, uh… Star Trek, Star Wars, LOTR, beans, jeans, not pooping - and I think that’s pretty much it, except for politics, am I missing anything? 😁

I wanted to add to others’ comments: usernames as well.

So e.g. I could go create an account called Matty@lemmy.world, and another called Matty@lemm.ee, and another Matty@lemmy.zip, etc. (assuming none of these already existed), and they each would be different - plus none of these would be you.

This is a reason why many celebrities say that they refuse to come to the Fediverse, b/c of this potential for misunderstanding regarding the account names - which tbf that is not entirely “new” issue since it would affect emails too, and yet in reality it is new b/c Twitter/X and Reddit and Facebook got people spoiled to expect a certain style of behavior so using the Fediverse feels to them a step backwards (we had a discussion about that topic recently).

So, exactly like email and a website URL, it takes the full thing to specify something exactly - a username, or a community.

I thought the same. Also it’s much higher for young males under age 25. Tbf testosterone is a bitch and that demographic causes a lot of the most extreme preventable accidents.

Which ironically encourages people to ride bikes! If only that were not nearly a suicidal activity in the USA in so many places… 😢

I did mention that it was only tangentially related. I did not realize though that programming.dev was not all that old. TIL.

Tangentially, there’s a whole bunch of issues going on with the programming.dev server for one. See at !meta@programming.dev. Lemmy’s upcoming upgrade to 0.19.6 should help - see https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/4623 and https://feddit.org/post/3524876 discussing it.

Or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof:-)

Yes, Nancy, exactly like that!

Beautiful illustration of this concept btw:-).

Except then you have to know the proper community name, which can often look very different from what is displayed. e.g. !world@lemmy.world is an entirely different community than !worldnews@lemmy.world, and damn, that example did not work bc both end up as “valid” links. Well, theoretically sometimes the feedback on having gotten the name correct could be helpful I suppose.

Also I note that what you are saying can seem in contradiction with the help docs. If you start a post or reply and click the help icon in the web UI, it will go to https://join-lemmy.org/docs/users/02-media.html, which does not mention the word “community” at all, but does show link syntax. I am more inclined to believe you than the help docs! Especially when we can see the resulting behavior in front of our very eyes - except where it may pertain to other methods of access - but I am pointing out here again that for a new user, finding out such things is currently a terrible process! Even Arch Linux has at the very least man pages, as well as the wikis!

But I’ve been on the Fediverse since the Rexodus, and since I don’t use apps other than the webpage UI (I tried Voyager but while it looks nice, it doesn’t seem to function well, maybe that pertains to accounts on instances other than Lemmy.world such as mine - e.g. I would reply to someone but no amount of refreshing or clicking around would let me see my reply until I force-quit and restarted the app), Mbin, PieFed or Sublinks (or Tesseract), I don’t know myself what the “preferred” method of linking is. I just see what works (or not) for me. And again the help docs are of no help here.

So since you are saying that this 11-month old post is outdated, if you know the details of what would be better practice, perhaps you can write a newer post explaining that?

I’ve had situations where that doesn’t work for me, or like where I will start typing and it won’t expand quite properly - e.g. typing !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca expands not to !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca but like to !newtolemmy!newtolemmy@lemmy.ca. The latter repeatedly happened to me on a desktop Chrome. Also if you user-block an instance, then the name expansion process no longer works.

There are actually two types of expansions - one done after you post, another while you are still writing. Neither of which I have ever seen written up in any guide anywhere, other than release notes from as you say like a year ago. Similarly I have not seen guides to cross-posting, in e.g. the Getting started guide.

Edit: oh, and this is the first I am hearing that the former expanded links won’t work - do you know when that happens? Maybe apps, or perhaps non-Lemmy Fediverse Mbin or PieFed? This is the first I am hearing of this iirc.

Finding out how things work on Lemmy, for those of us who do not use Arch btw, is a terrible process for new users. I was thinking, it sure would be nice if there was not just a single post here and there such as Lemmy.ml’s What is Lemmy.ml (that is the exact link that appears in their sidebar though), but an entire community somewhere where such guidance could be posted. If not this one, then somewhere else - but this is the only one like that that I have seen.

Edit: if you know more about when links won’t work, perhaps you can post the thought in that community?

Except some instances like hexbear have downvoting disabled, which tends to encourage people to comment more.

On the bright side, you can check out any time you like:-).

Edit: though it’s such a lovely place, such a lovely place…