This person in the mirror has gained a lot of weight…

I wonder… how many months would it take even Google to sort it all out now, if it wanted to? At some point, even if they haven’t crossed it yet, certain knowledge simply becomes lost forever.

Ads have become so deeply embedded into search results that even Google now can no longer tell the difference between them!?!?

Haha, oh yes, definitely not only not actively growing anymore but fully actively declining instead - those internal politics mattered more than the actual language issues themselves, once again. Every time I see another Python update and how very many things they break, I think that thought again. Tbf newer updates breaking older code happens even with C++ too - backwards compatibility affects just everything - though the whole Python 2 vs. 3 definitely still rankles me.

I guess I’m still having emotional trouble letting it go - but that is an absolutely perfect example of Latin, still spoken yet most definitely also considered “dead” at the same time. I guess this about sums it up:

Fair - and in fact doubly so bc even code that is readable in a language that someone else does not know (well) isn’t so “readable” by definition. i.e. “readable by someone who knows the language” != “readable by most developers”.

Though having to rediscover how our code works is something shared by all languages. Perl does allow the worst there though.

Python is not better in every way, it’s just more general-purpose, so has a wider range of applicability.

Also more people use it, though by that logic we should all be forced to use Windows bc everyone else does as well?

And Perl both still exists and is actively maintained, so it “lost prominence” rather than “died”.

Good advice:)

So *I* who am careful to write readable and safe code, have to use a non-preferred language preference b/c someone else cannot handle using it properly?!

Sadly, that is the realization that I have come to as well. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and all that… but no, really, that’s true, b/c modifications are likely to be made at some point (kinda biasing towards production there but even so, answers with perl one-liners on e.g. StackOverflow are ubiquitous, but someone would have to know the language to be able to modify them to suit their specific use-case, so also not at the same time).

Fwiw I really did not think that Perl was hard to learn - though that was coming from the likes of assembly, various Basic styles, C/C++, and having already learned regular expressions via Unix e.g. grep and awk and sed. “Regular expressions” are quite a steep learning curve, though that’s not the same thing as Perl, and quite frankly Perl is the undisputed (iirc?) master of them all, so whether someone wanted to write Perl without those, or wanted to do try to do regular expressions without Perl, either way Perl seems good for having included regular expressions, not something to penalize the entire language for. Also, C/C++ (and Rust) has a bit of a known learning curve as well…:-) Though indeed it’s entirely fair to say that if someone were to pick just one language, then I would be hard pressed to find any justification for that being Perl. C/C++, Java, Python - all of these, depending on the situation, are fine choices, whereas Perl is absolutely niche.

But even so, why would it follow that it would necessarily be a good thing if Perl, or let’s say awk, would fully “go away”? I kinda see Perl and awk as being in the same boat these days - both niche and powerful, yet both steadily becoming obsolete? Just b/c something else is “better” doesn’t mean that everything else must die. Except, as you mentioned, for reasons of collaboration and thus code-reuse. Even there though, putting all of our eggs into a single basket scares me: what if tomorrow Microsoft, or Google, decides to purchase the rights to Python and suddenly control that entire industry sector in one fell swoop?

I have never quite understood this mode of thinking - I think it must be an imprecise statement. Yes, improper usage of Perl coding can be bad, but then so too can C/C++ with e.g. improper memory management? Yet, I don’t see people knocking down doors to learn the memory-safe Rust (and e.g. thereby be able to contribute to the Lemmy codebase), probably bc despite it being “better”, it also has a steep learning curve (and I don’t even know but I would assume: even for someone who already knows C?). Instead, people seem to want to learn Go, or Java - okay so that’s a rabbit hole b/c they are for entirely different purposes, but anyway I mean that each language has its own balance of trade-offs.

So while on the one hand the worst-case scenario from a poor coder for Perl seems significantly worse than for Python, there are also benefits too: doesn’t Perl run up to 20x faster than Python, which is why many places e.g. booking.com have chosen to use it? In the hands of an experienced person, perl code is quite readable, while in contrast, I just absolutely HATE aspects of Python such as whitespace delimiting and the package management, plus I don’t know if I am imagining things (is is likely) but the code just seems to me to look obtuse, by comparison.

Sometimes I’ll use awk, other times I’ll bump that up to a Perl one-liner or even full script, still other times demand Python or for number-crunching full C/C++, or Java for whatever reason, but… for things that you want fast & easy, I don’t really see Perl as “bad”? Granted, it shouldn’t be someone’s first language these days, compared to C or Python, but what is wrong with it, like awk, continuing to exist these days? Especially if it’s not in a production environment.

I’m listening.

Isn’t exactly this kind of thing what is mostly responsible for the demise of Perl?

As I heard it told, the developers of Perl worked so long & hard on the next version after Perl 5, but then veered off to make a new language (Raku) and despite the reality being otherwise, people feared so much that Perl would die (i.e. that 6 would never materialize) that in the meantime “everyone” had switched to Python (despite it clearly being an inferior language - hehehehe:-P).

So that would be a “con” I suppose, if fights over which language is better ends up diluting efforts to work on or with either.

Y̵e̷s̸

The quote is burn crosses, not carry them!? 😜

Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses.

System Update

I was assigned one, but decided that it was wrong. Now I’m arguably the same one, but I feel like a massive improvement.

I guess it depends where, and when, you look? :-P

This headline would have carried a ton more weight if it wasn’t so extremely click-baity.

The ends do not justify the means?

I was poor and so played very few titles when they first came out, but at some point later on discovered emulation, and loved seeing the magical wonderland of all the best games from the past.

I particularly loved seeing the “development” of a genre. Like Dragon Warrior/Quest was a game where the player controls a single character, who only had 8 item slots (though I don’t recall if you could fit like 3 or 8 or sth medical herbs together - even if so it was extremely constraining), and keys were something that you used once but never again. Then Dragon Warrior/Quest 2 added two additional characters to your party - but they were “fixed”, both magic-users, a prince & a princess iirc, who kinda swapped between them which was more powerful at the time as they learned new things. Then Dragon Warrior/Quest 3 allowed you to roll your own characters with a character creation menu in a tavern, and you could reject them and reroll to attempt higher stats, choose their names, classes and even upgrade classes, some like Sage needing special items from the world. Somewhere in there keys became permanent forever-use items, though they also expanded to include different “types” - opening locked wooden, metal, gold, or prison doors.

And Dragon Warrior/Quest 4 was one of the most intricate, multi-interleaving storylines that I’ve ever seen, despite the constraint of having to fit onto an old NES cartridge!:-) Those graphics were NOTHING like the 3-d effects of the later installments in the series, yet so very much of what made those franchises great were there.

Chrono Cross I did not like so much - it was “fine” as a game, but it was not the spiritual sequel that I hoped for:-). I occasionally play through Chrono Trigger every few years, like re-reading an old favorite book - the music, the story, the themes, it relaxes me and I enjoy it, plus it’s so short that such is do-able:-).

Yes I played Crystalis! Not like, whenever it was when it first came out, but I like to study the evolution of gaming so I went back and played a bunch like Dragon Warrior/Quest, even the Japanese versions of Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, etc.

I definitely enjoyed Chrono Trigger more:-). But I was glad to have played Crystalis too, especially with it having been so unique (or at least like rare I guess).

And while I never played it, isn’t Baldur’s Gate also post-apocalyptic, with a high fantasy theme? There are indeed so many that use that trope.:-)

Yes as @ettyblatant@lemmy.world mentioned, that one and even more so Haunting of Bly Manor are two of the best shows I have ever watched - not merely best “horror” show mind you, but best period. It’s fantastic storytelling! Horror shows have really come up lately, compared to older ones that got less attention and funding to make.

And no worries - we haven’t even secured the house yet!? Maybe when we do, we can roll dice to see who gets to go first:-D.

I agree - and we’re dragging you into this circle as well (and no, not only bc @nightofmichelinstars@sopuli.xyz and I need a sacrifice - but also bc we’ll enjoy your company forever afterwards!:-)

(Image is from Haunting of Hill House - a fantastic film series!!!)

Star Trek comes to mind unless you disallow scifi (as high fantasy usually would iirc, though notably “space operas” really do seem to blur the line).

LOTR could be argued as such - there was an earlier age of beings from which only remnants survived, and then we also watch live as a second epochal transition takes place, where the likes of elves disappear. I mean, either way it’s not “our reality” type of age - but then again you couldn’t ask for that from “high fantasy” by definition :-).

And it’s a very common trope in video games - e.g. Chrono Trigger that is arguably the best RPG of all time (shitty graphics, even for its time, but hands-down the best story I’ve ever seen, made btw by the creators of Final Fantasy who were given the freedom to do whatever they wanted for it). Edit: another one like that is Lufia - not a ground-breaking game but highly regarded for doing what it did so very well, at its time mind you.

And I’ve seen some others where like basically Earth is implied to have been destroyed (or at least it is unclear whether it survived a world-ending event), but the singular human remaining lives on, in space, but in something like a series of interconnected “worlds”, some having higher levels of technology than Earth ever managed to reach while others are set in earlier timeframes. And dealing with noncorporeal beings from like higher dimensions, and entities like a god inside the machine - so definitely once again mixing up heavy elements of “high fantasy” (with the likes of swords and magic) and sci-fi.

If you can dream it, someone has likely written it. Books are freaking awesome! 😎 So too are other mediums, when profits are not the exclusive focus.