Israel=The Israeli govt. in basically every conversation within this context. Trying to say “but both right?!” When that’s what everyone has been saying from the start, makes you look like you’re acting in bad faith.
That you’re an Israeli shill? I was trying to be nice about it, guess not. See how I use Israeli to refer to people? Since it’s Israeli citizens who lose because of an extremist Israel? Hamas are terrorists, Israel is an apartheid state. The citizens both groups have control over are suffering and your trying to conflate denouncing Israel and antisemitism. Stop.
Agreed but you’re splitting hairs. My grandparents who voted for Biden aren’t really “the left” either.
My ex who i’ve convinced to switch sides on this issue but is too afraid to say anything publicly because she doesn’t think she knows enough of the history to take a stance isn’t really “the left”, but she voted Biden too.
Pretty much all of the Democratic leadership except Ilhan Omar.
Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t that left either, yet you go to one Hamas Terrorist funeral, and suddenly you’re a terrorist sympathiser and out come the photos at election time.
Sure, you can be left in the West, but not in a way where you’ll get even a sniff of power.
Everything I read about this dude characterizes him as abandoning left wing policy in favor of center, center-right policy.
4th paragraph of his wikipedia page
His leadership has been characterised by movement towards the political centre and abandonment of the left-wing platform of his leadership campaign, as well as by opposition to some of the government response to the COVID-19 pandemic and issues such as Partygate
I just think it’s strange for you to insinuate that the position of the left is that of Israel’s.
If you have problems with me saying ‘Isreal’s crimes are wrong’ without clarification about Hamas being bad as well then you should have first had problems with the guy saying “Hamas attacked Israel in the bloodiest assault in history”, implying everything Isreal is doing is morally permissible.
Speaking of, Hamas has over 1MM liters of fuel, and ample supplies of fresh water, that they refuse to distribute in Gaza. They also refuse to return hostages, which would also immediately lift the siege.
The reason they stockpiled so much is their tunnel ventilation systems run on generators (which is also the reason Israel is trying to deny them fuel, because tunnel fighting is a nightmare and that’s what is coming)
I mean we can copy the same comments to another over and over all day if ya want.
I’ve got 3 hrs til my plane boards
FWIW I’d strongly support a heavily-militarized aid station set up in the south but you know as well as I do that people would still blame Israel for Hamas gunning down people headed south.
Forget the tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians that Israel has killed. Those don’t matter at all in the context of your very well thought out point.
Being one of the only lefties with common sense, I get ratio’d quite often. But I don’t need fake points from imaginary online friends to feel good about myself 😂
Just lovely how everybody is forgetting that Hamas is responsible for this all. They can end it any time they want, release the hostages and surrender, but they chose not to.
Prior to early October, Israel was completely out of Gaza, and was not attacking Gaza whatsoever, so no they weren’t killing them long before they took hostages.
Also the entire siege is about trying to force Hamas to give up hostages. That is literally the reason it is being done. Hamas also has massive food, water, and fuel stockpiles they refuse to share with the people they “govern”
I urge you to get your source not from literally the entity being excused of genocide (or its direct allies e.i. US news outlets). they have enough money to throw so much propaganda at you that you would never believe anything else.
from one online stranger to another: using and citing sources as such is an instant discredit.
I’ll look up any data you want, if you’ll acknowledge that without the Iron Dome, casualty comparisons would be wildly different.
I have severe issues with some of Israel’s past actions. The invasion of Gaza in the teens was an incredibly poor choice. Hamas has bombed Israel 7,000+ times in the last 2 weeks, Israel just has top tier defenses against rocket attacks
That doesn’t make what they’re doing now wrong, or give Hamas a leg to stand on.
I wonder what the US would do if the Mexican government launched 7,000 missiles at us.
Why are you still talking about the last two weeks when the entire point of this discussion was about what happened before October? Just say that you only discovered this issue two weeks ago if that is the case, which is getting to be pretty obvious if we are being honest here.
You want me to acknowledge that more missiles would have hit Israel in the last two weeks if Israel didn’t shoot down those missiles? Yeah, no shit. Do you think that proves a point? Israel has very little to fear from Gaza, we already knew that.
Propose an alternative solution if you don’t like what IDF is doing, since otherwise all you are doing is nothing more than revoking their right for self defense.
Because Hamas’s stated purpose is to destroy Israel, and they knew their attack would be met with reprisal, so they took hostages as human meat-shields
I really hope israel will loose their wildcard and be accountable for all this shit. Just remove their privileges!
They won’t. The extermination of Palestinians has been a stated goal of Israel and its allies for decades.
They’re not going to be punished for pulling the trigger.
This is the full transcript of the recording between an Israeli IDF officer and a resident of northern Gaza
“Hello?”
“Muhammad?”
“Yes”
“How are you?”
“Yes”
"This is an officer from the IDF calling you. For your own safety I’m asking you to go to Khan Yunis as fast as possible "
“Where to?”
“In the direction of Khan Yunis. ASAP. I don’t want you to put yourself at risk, that’s why I’m telling you to go there.”
“All the roads are blocked”
“Where you are right now isn’t safe, you need to… blocked where? Who blocked it? Hamas?”
“Yes”
“What?”
“Yes, that’s correct”
“Where did they block the road?”
“At Salah ad-Din”
“Salah ad-Din?”
“Yeah”
“How did they block it?”
“They’re just forcing people to go back home”
“Are they putting cars on the road? Police cars or…”
“Yes yes”
“How exactly? Explain it to me. Please, did you see it with your own eyes?”
“In a car, people are going south and they’re just bringing them back home”
“How did they block the road?”
“They’re shooting at people”
“Shooting what? Are they shooting at people that want to leave?”
“Yes yes yes”
https://twitter.com/ItayBlumental/status/1717466384794300882?t=7HRQJ5h29HRlfhN1fCl3mQ&s=19
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I’m linking the source video lol
And then what did the IDF forces do to Northern Gaza?
Ask people to leave for their own protection before intense urban fighting
The Israeli policy of bombing first and asking later makes this impossible.
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Mass murder?
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Israel=The Israeli govt. in basically every conversation within this context. Trying to say “but both right?!” When that’s what everyone has been saying from the start, makes you look like you’re acting in bad faith.
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That you’re an Israeli shill? I was trying to be nice about it, guess not. See how I use Israeli to refer to people? Since it’s Israeli citizens who lose because of an extremist Israel? Hamas are terrorists, Israel is an apartheid state. The citizens both groups have control over are suffering and your trying to conflate denouncing Israel and antisemitism. Stop.
It’s hard to go against them in the West.
The right hate Muslims so side with Israel.
The left hate to be called antisemites, so hand-wring over civilian deaths, but ultimately side with Israel.
Who are these voices on the “left” that you say are supporting Israel?
Biden
Biden is not the left lmao
True, but effectively on the political stage, he is the opposition. Understandable that non-politically online people/normal people call him left.
Agreed but you’re splitting hairs. My grandparents who voted for Biden aren’t really “the left” either.
My ex who i’ve convinced to switch sides on this issue but is too afraid to say anything publicly because she doesn’t think she knows enough of the history to take a stance isn’t really “the left”, but she voted Biden too.
Pretty much all of the Democratic leadership except Ilhan Omar.
They’re not leftists but they are “the left”
The “viable left” I suppose.
Jeremy Corbyn wasn’t that left either, yet you go to one Hamas Terrorist funeral, and suddenly you’re a terrorist sympathiser and out come the photos at election time.
Sure, you can be left in the West, but not in a way where you’ll get even a sniff of power.
https://labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/keir-starmers-statement-to-the-commons-on-israel-gaza-2/
And this is where you accuse anybody right of being a full communist of not being left enough, so we can save ourselves that interaction.
Keir Starmer?
Everything I read about this dude characterizes him as abandoning left wing policy in favor of center, center-right policy.
4th paragraph of his wikipedia page
I just think it’s strange for you to insinuate that the position of the left is that of Israel’s.
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No one on the left is hand wringing over the civilian deaths but ultimately siding with Israel. Literally no one.
You recall that Hamas attacked Israel in the bloodiest assault in history, right?
You guys make me embarrassed to call myself a lefty.
Well gee, that sure does give Isreal the right to do ethnic cleansing. It’s self defense after all so everything is permissible. /s
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Saying that Isreal shouldn’t be killing civilians and doing ethnic cleansing is not pro-Hamas.
Neither party should be doing those things.
I am.
Perhaps you could try not assuming the worst out of people you don’t know.
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If you have problems with me saying ‘Isreal’s crimes are wrong’ without clarification about Hamas being bad as well then you should have first had problems with the guy saying “Hamas attacked Israel in the bloodiest assault in history”, implying everything Isreal is doing is morally permissible.
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Why do you pretend everybody is stupid? People know the history. They know the attack didn’t happen in a vacuum. They can also think it’s bad.
As a result of this they can tell when somebody is doing atrocity propaganda to defend and aid in Israel’s impunity to kill thousands of Palestinians.
The pot calling the kettle black
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I don’t support Hamas.
No, I’m just against ethnic cleansing, which is what Isreal is currently doing and getting billions of dollars in support for.
Isreal shouldn’t be doing ethnic cleansing, nor should Hamas.
It’s really a sign of intelligence to assume things of people you don’t know and have only ever spoken to on the internet.
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Please keep insulting me. I’m becoming so convinced you’re right.
Yep you sure showed that guy which person here is the moron… /S
Israel is doing ethnic cleansing. They’ve been doing it for 50+ years.
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The Gaza population has doubled in the last 20 years. If they are doing ethnic cleansing they’re doing a really bad job at it
Meanwhile Jews are banned from almost all Muslim countries
No one here is supporting Hamas. We support PALESTINE.
Hamas doing something horrible doesn’t make it OK to starve the entirety of Gaza though, not everyone inside Gaza is Hamas
Speaking of, Hamas has over 1MM liters of fuel, and ample supplies of fresh water, that they refuse to distribute in Gaza. They also refuse to return hostages, which would also immediately lift the siege.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/
Edit to add:
The reason they stockpiled so much is their tunnel ventilation systems run on generators (which is also the reason Israel is trying to deny them fuel, because tunnel fighting is a nightmare and that’s what is coming)
Here’s a great video with more info https://www.youtube.com/live/xfc0nHLgDuY?si=8P-MddAIFXsFt-mA
It’s not unreasonable to expect an enemy government to feed their people, rather than your country
I mean we can copy the same comments to another over and over all day if ya want.
I’ve got 3 hrs til my plane boards
FWIW I’d strongly support a heavily-militarized aid station set up in the south but you know as well as I do that people would still blame Israel for Hamas gunning down people headed south.
Down near the border crossing that Israel keeps bombing?
Until it sinks in.
Palestine is protecting and aiding Hamas, though.
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/b8JUUNhFnXI?si=dGaBLSZI-gE_SpQM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Bloodiest assault in history? You have to be joking.
Uhh yeah? This is the bloodiest attack Palestine has ever done against Israel. Are you stunned? 😂
Forget the tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians that Israel has killed. Those don’t matter at all in the context of your very well thought out point.
Moved the goalposts and you’re still wrong.
I’m demonstrably right though 😂
Wrong and ratio’d
Being one of the only lefties with common sense, I get ratio’d quite often. But I don’t need fake points from imaginary online friends to feel good about myself 😂
“Everyone I meet is an asshole”
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(x) Doubt.
Just lovely how everybody is forgetting that Hamas is responsible for this all. They can end it any time they want, release the hostages and surrender, but they chose not to.
Hasn’t Israel been killing them since LONG before they took hostages? Why would release them suddenly make it stop?
Prior to early October, Israel was completely out of Gaza, and was not attacking Gaza whatsoever, so no they weren’t killing them long before they took hostages.
Also the entire siege is about trying to force Hamas to give up hostages. That is literally the reason it is being done. Hamas also has massive food, water, and fuel stockpiles they refuse to share with the people they “govern”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-says-gaza-photos-show-half-million-liters-of-fuel-held-by-hamas/
Also they’re using that fuel to power the ventilation systems in their tunnels that run on generators
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-770123
I urge you to get your source not from literally the entity being excused of genocide (or its direct allies e.i. US news outlets). they have enough money to throw so much propaganda at you that you would never believe anything else.
from one online stranger to another: using and citing sources as such is an instant discredit.
I’m gonna go ahead and keep listening to the people who aren’t literal terrorists.
well then, again, I urge you to change your sources if you don’t want to listen to terrorists
You get that the history of Israeli and Palestinian relations goes back further than October of this year, right?
Yep.
How many Palestinians did the IDF kill in an average year before October?
I’ll look up any data you want, if you’ll acknowledge that without the Iron Dome, casualty comparisons would be wildly different.
I have severe issues with some of Israel’s past actions. The invasion of Gaza in the teens was an incredibly poor choice. Hamas has bombed Israel 7,000+ times in the last 2 weeks, Israel just has top tier defenses against rocket attacks
That doesn’t make what they’re doing now wrong, or give Hamas a leg to stand on.
I wonder what the US would do if the Mexican government launched 7,000 missiles at us.
Why are you still talking about the last two weeks when the entire point of this discussion was about what happened before October? Just say that you only discovered this issue two weeks ago if that is the case, which is getting to be pretty obvious if we are being honest here.
You want me to acknowledge that more missiles would have hit Israel in the last two weeks if Israel didn’t shoot down those missiles? Yeah, no shit. Do you think that proves a point? Israel has very little to fear from Gaza, we already knew that.
“Look at what you made me do!”
“Stop making me murder you!”
“Stop defending yourself while I murder you”
Propose an alternative solution if you don’t like what IDF is doing, since otherwise all you are doing is nothing more than revoking their right for self defense.
Evil is as evil does. There is never a justification for attacking civilians.
Israel doesn’t give two shits about the hostages. If they did they wouldn’t keep bombing where they are being held.
Why did they take hostage?
Because Hamas’s stated purpose is to destroy Israel, and they knew their attack would be met with reprisal, so they took hostages as human meat-shields
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