My experiences with death has cured me of any atheist delusions. There’s a damn good reason they say, “there are no atheists in foxholes.” It’s not about whether you believe this or that to be real or not real - that is irrelevant - it’s about what matters in those horrible moments people experience true mortality before they go. It’s not pretty like they pretend it to be in the movies, and armchair philosophizing doesn’t mean squat to people then.
No offense, but “No atheists in foxholes” ONLY makes sense to religious people… why would an atheist pray to something he/she doesn’t believe in? Do Christians pray to Muhammad or one of the thousands of other religions in foxholes? Of course not, because they don’t believe in them… that’s the point. If someone is doing that, they’re at best agnostic.
And for the record, I’ve had one of my daughters literally die in my arms, it’s a terrible experience, but it didn’t convert me to some religion to try and make sense out of.
but “No atheists in foxholes” ONLY makes sense to religious people
I’m afraid not. I’m not religious at all - and it makes perfect sense to me.
why would an atheist pray to something he/she doesn’t believe in?
It’s very easy to convince yourself that you’ve chosen to believe this or that when life is comfortable. It’s peak individualism - and such delusions fall apart very fast when the trauma starts piling on. You don’t have to believe me - believe the people who wrote the CIA’s torture manuals.
It’s called “regression” - if you were spoon-fed a certain religion as a child you will “regress” to that under extreme duress (amongst other, even worse, things). That’s why they say, “there are no atheists in foxholes.”
but atheism isn’t an invention of the current generations.
Of course it isn’t.
And if you weren’t?
That’s actually a very difficult thing… even someone who was raised in a non-religious home would be exposed to religion (and things worse than religion under our current circumstances) through social osmosis. Soooo… you’d have to find someone that was raised in a society that can be called atheist with a straight face.
I guess it must be “going over my head”, because it makes no sense to me to pray to something that isn’t there, unless you at least think there’s at least a tiny chance there is… aka agnostic.
I also wouldn’t pray to my toaster unless I thought at least there was the slightest chance it could hear me.
So everything in your life “makes sense”? How did you accomplish that?
I also wouldn’t pray to my toaster unless
I also wouldn’t recommend praying to anything that comes with an on/off switch… though I am undecided about threatening them with banishment to a landfill.
I never said everything in life makes sense, just that praying to something you don’t think is real doesn’t.
Obviously you believe in some form of higher power, so it makes sense that you would pray to it. But you wouldn’t pray to something you don’t at least think has a chance of existing, why would you think an atheist would?
Wow this is a stupid take. I was spoon fed Christianity, now I’m agnostic. I’ve experienced plenty of traumatic things and I haven’t found myself praying to God in any of those.
You don’t know me at all, dipshit. Congratulations for being the most insufferable Lemmy user I’ve ran into so far. I feel sorry for people that know you. That has to be traumatic.
People react differently, sure, some will call out to some higher power even if they don’t believe, if these call-outs are part of their vocabulary. I certainly say “oh god” a lot, even though I’m a very vocal anti-theist and strong atheist. But they do not necessarily beg a higher power to safe them because they actually believe, but because in distress reaching for help is human instinct and our theism infused culture conditions us towards “god” in such situations.
I’m not proud of it, but in distress I did call to god for help. But hey, I was 11 years old and just had my fingers crushed to paste, I was in shock and not thinking and at no point did I actually expect help.
None of that is belief, as soon as peoole regain their senses, they discard it. Just like wounded soldiers on a battlefield don’t actually expect their mothers to show up and safe them, yet still call out to them.
Belief needs conviction and irrational panic behavior tells us nothing about conviction but a lot about ingrained childhood experience and familial as well as societal indoctrination.
I’m not proud of it, but in distress I did call to god for help
Doesn’t sound like the actions of a “strong atheist” (if such a thing can or should even exist) to me… just sounds like bog-standard human behavior.
But hey, I was 11 years old
But you’ve left all of that behind, right? You’re a big, strong, rational main character now that will never be put into such a vulnerable situation ever again, right?
None of that is belief,
Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn’t - and that probably isn’t even relevant.
as soon as peoole regain their senses, they discard it.
When I cease to be hungry I stop eating - that doesn’t mean I reject the concept of food.
Just like wounded soldiers on a battlefield don’t actually expect their mothers to show up and safe them, yet still call out to them.
In other words… atheist reasoning only works as long as everything is comfortable and non-threatening? It offers absolutely nothing to those in distress?
I’d say that’s a big, gaping hole in said reasoning.
Belief needs conviction
So does non-belief, apparently. At least, that’s what the narratives I hear from atheists seem to suggest.
My experiences with death has cured me of any atheist delusions. There’s a damn good reason they say, “there are no atheists in foxholes.” It’s not about whether you believe this or that to be real or not real - that is irrelevant - it’s about what matters in those horrible moments people experience true mortality before they go. It’s not pretty like they pretend it to be in the movies, and armchair philosophizing doesn’t mean squat to people then.
No offense, but “No atheists in foxholes” ONLY makes sense to religious people… why would an atheist pray to something he/she doesn’t believe in? Do Christians pray to Muhammad or one of the thousands of other religions in foxholes? Of course not, because they don’t believe in them… that’s the point. If someone is doing that, they’re at best agnostic.
And for the record, I’ve had one of my daughters literally die in my arms, it’s a terrible experience, but it didn’t convert me to some religion to try and make sense out of.
None taken.
I’m afraid not. I’m not religious at all - and it makes perfect sense to me.
It’s very easy to convince yourself that you’ve chosen to believe this or that when life is comfortable. It’s peak individualism - and such delusions fall apart very fast when the trauma starts piling on. You don’t have to believe me - believe the people who wrote the CIA’s torture manuals.
It’s called “regression” - if you were spoon-fed a certain religion as a child you will “regress” to that under extreme duress (amongst other, even worse, things). That’s why they say, “there are no atheists in foxholes.”
And if you weren’t? Probably hard to believe for most Americans but atheism isn’t an invention of the current generations.
Of course it isn’t.
That’s actually a very difficult thing… even someone who was raised in a non-religious home would be exposed to religion (and things worse than religion under our current circumstances) through social osmosis. Soooo… you’d have to find someone that was raised in a society that can be called atheist with a straight face.
So you’re saying you’d pray to things you don’t believe in when confronted with something traumatic?
This is all going straight over your head, isn’t it?
I guess it must be “going over my head”, because it makes no sense to me to pray to something that isn’t there, unless you at least think there’s at least a tiny chance there is… aka agnostic.
I also wouldn’t pray to my toaster unless I thought at least there was the slightest chance it could hear me.
So everything in your life “makes sense”? How did you accomplish that?
I also wouldn’t recommend praying to anything that comes with an on/off switch… though I am undecided about threatening them with banishment to a landfill.
I never said everything in life makes sense, just that praying to something you don’t think is real doesn’t.
Obviously you believe in some form of higher power, so it makes sense that you would pray to it. But you wouldn’t pray to something you don’t at least think has a chance of existing, why would you think an atheist would?
Why is your thinking about this so narrow? What makes you think this is simply about praying?
Btw - this is why triggering atheists is so much more fun than triggering believers… you’re more narrow-minded than they are.
There are lots of “higher powers” around - though I wouldn’t say I believe in any of them. They seem to get on just fine wiothout my belief.
Pray to power? That’s a new one to me.
Wow this is a stupid take. I was spoon fed Christianity, now I’m agnostic. I’ve experienced plenty of traumatic things and I haven’t found myself praying to God in any of those.
Where did you get this is bs?
I guess you missed this part?
I suppose you were too busy convincing yourself that losing at video games qualify as “traumatic…”
You don’t know me at all, dipshit. Congratulations for being the most insufferable Lemmy user I’ve ran into so far. I feel sorry for people that know you. That has to be traumatic.
I agree. And I’d prefer to keep it that way.
Considering how easy it was to trigger you I find your claim of any kind of actual life experience quite dubious.
You make an awful lot of assumptions. Keep being a basement keyboard warrior, loser.
ROFLMAO! Says the person who named themselves “Cold_Brew_Enema!”
People react differently, sure, some will call out to some higher power even if they don’t believe, if these call-outs are part of their vocabulary. I certainly say “oh god” a lot, even though I’m a very vocal anti-theist and strong atheist. But they do not necessarily beg a higher power to safe them because they actually believe, but because in distress reaching for help is human instinct and our theism infused culture conditions us towards “god” in such situations.
I’m not proud of it, but in distress I did call to god for help. But hey, I was 11 years old and just had my fingers crushed to paste, I was in shock and not thinking and at no point did I actually expect help.
None of that is belief, as soon as peoole regain their senses, they discard it. Just like wounded soldiers on a battlefield don’t actually expect their mothers to show up and safe them, yet still call out to them.
Belief needs conviction and irrational panic behavior tells us nothing about conviction but a lot about ingrained childhood experience and familial as well as societal indoctrination.
Doesn’t sound like the actions of a “strong atheist” (if such a thing can or should even exist) to me… just sounds like bog-standard human behavior.
But you’ve left all of that behind, right? You’re a big, strong, rational main character now that will never be put into such a vulnerable situation ever again, right?
Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn’t - and that probably isn’t even relevant.
When I cease to be hungry I stop eating - that doesn’t mean I reject the concept of food.
In other words… atheist reasoning only works as long as everything is comfortable and non-threatening? It offers absolutely nothing to those in distress?
I’d say that’s a big, gaping hole in said reasoning.
So does non-belief, apparently. At least, that’s what the narratives I hear from atheists seem to suggest.
You want a drink with all that straw, man?
Depends… is it big enough to fill the giant gap in atheist reasoning?