• Hegar@kbin.social
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    7 months ago

    Humans reach North America is listed at ~16k years ago. That’s based on the Clovis First model that was still dominant then.

    Now we know small populations of humans were already in the Americas when this chart begins, having traveled along the coast from around what is today Japan.

    Archaeology is progressing so quickly these days that even XKCD is no longer an up-to-date source!

  • emptyother@programming.dev
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    7 months ago

    Earth has been iceless before of course, and I’ve heard people claim its not a problem for it to happen again.

    But if only this heating had occured slowly over a period of ~45 million years, nobody would have panicked. We’d adapt. Fauna and flora would adapt. We’d not even notice the ice caps melting.

  • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Reminds me of a scientist discussing an economics paper that said warming to +4°C would only cost 1% of GDP, so we should stop with all the warming alarmism.

    The scientist remarked that if you entered -4°C in that calculation used in the paper you would also get 1% of GDP, but in reality -4°C would cover most of the major cities with a mile of ICE.

    • hydroptic@sopuli.xyz
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      7 months ago

      It absolutely will not. It’s become abundantly clear that any sort of actually meaningful climate action will simply not happen in the current system, which is focused on profit at all costs and run by literal psychopaths. We’ll continue seeing cosmetic consumer-facing restrictions like the ban on plastic straws that ultimately are nearly pointless in the grand scheme of things – the real polluters are corporations and people that are much too rich (ie. powerful) for their contribution to this climate clusterfuck to be meaningfully regulated.

      For actual change that’s not just tiny incremental and ineffectual bullshit that mainly places the blame on consumers, we’d have to redo our entire economic system and that’s not going to happen without a lot of bloodshed.

  • 7heo@lemmy.ml
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    7 months ago

    This image is wrong. 2016 was only 8 years ago. Yet our current temperature is well over +1C.

    • rekabis@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      And I read somewhere that current ocean temps are more indicative of +3℃ of warming.

      Like, most politicians are still f**king around like +1.5℃ is still decades off. We’ve already passed that point by most any reasonable, rational, and non-politically-farked standard.

      • 7heo@lemmy.ml
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        7 months ago

        Oh yeah. But what can you do? People prefer their comfort to the survival of their own children. Which is doubly worse because the boomer and X generation literally enslaved their own children, so, not only the newer generations will likely die out of famine, overheating, or violence from their own peers, but in the meanwhile they also have a terrible time.

        • orcrist@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          It’s convenient to blame the people at large for what’s happening, and of course to some degree we all have a responsibility to do what we can, but it’s also important to look at where the CO2 is coming from, who is making efforts to reduce it, and who is making efforts to prevent any limitations from being crafted. This is obviously something that ties heavily into capitalism, big business, and corrupt governments.

          To put it another way, you can’t recycle your way out of global warming. Systemic problems require systemic solutions.

          • 7heo@lemmy.ml
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            7 months ago

            It’s convenient to blame the people at large for what’s happening, and of course to some degree we all have a responsibility to do what we can, but it’s also important to look at where the CO2 is coming from, who is making efforts to reduce it, and who is making efforts to prevent any limitations from being crafted.

            Yeah, absolutely, but just like with major tragedies can be traced back to only a few meaningful people (holocaust, Cambodian genocide, Bangladesh genocide, Circassian genocide, Armenian genocide, Greek genocide, Rwandan genocide, Assyrian genocide, Chechen genocide, Hutus genocide, Isaaq genocide, Guatemalan genocide, Libyan genocide, the NKVD “Polish operation”, the great Chinese famine, Soviet famine of the 1930s, …; to only mention some from the past century), the participation of enough people is necessary to enact anything. And the inaction of most of the remainder.

            As the famous unattributed adage says:

            The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

            Point is: mass consumption is necessary to enable the abusers to such degree.

            This is obviously something that ties heavily into capitalism, big business, and corrupt governments.

            This ties into enabling any government to mindlessly mass-produce CO2. As it turns out, the current capitalist degeneration we call “the economeh” puts megacorporations in charge, and lets them “trade” their “pollution allowance”. Such practice exacerbate the problem, and are completely insane.

            But unfortunately the mass production of CO2 is not limited to capitalism and western societies. Any human development needs energy, that is how we transform what is around us. Using “fossil fuels” is several orders of magnitude more potent than not. Lemme rephrase that: generating this amount of CO2 is what enables our lifestyle.

            The only viable alternative is using nuclear energy, and the vast majority of the population is terrified of it, so it realistically is not going to happen anytime soon.

            Anyhow, such lifestyle (cars, new clothes twice a year, meat at every other meal, 20C in the house at all times, a constant internet connection on the go, comfort services, etc) is what the overwhelming majority of humans want, and that is the actual problem.

            TL;DR: capitalism, or at least our inbred redneck version of it, makes matters a lot worse. But the problem is with uncontrolled human “development”, and letting people consume mindlessly.

            To put it another way, you can’t recycle your way out of global warming. Systemic problems require systemic solutions.

            You vote with your wallet, and humanity has voted for climate change.

            This isn’t about recycling. Recycling at the scale we are envisioning it is utter gaslighting. It barely works, and when it does, it produces CO2 as well. If we wanted to have an impact, we should only accept products that last several decades, reuse and repair.

            No, the mass-pollution that is causing the 6th extinction event has been entirely, totally, completely, unequivocally, and unreservedly enabled by us.

            Let’s stop hiding behind those “big bad capitalist baddies”. They are absolutely despicable assholes, but we enabled them.

            And by “we” and “us” I mean “those of us, relatively to their buying power”. Which brings me to the point I was making above: the older generations, that accumulated riches, and monopolized ownership, funneled all the money, and decided to invest (the part of this money that they didn’t greedily accumulate or reuse to further their monopoly) into comfort and status consumption, which, in turn, are responsible for enabling the industrial actors to pollute as much.

  • MyNamesNotRobert@lemmynsfw.com
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    7 months ago

    Stop having kids. Doing away with most modem technology to save the planet, if that’s what they really want to do, is in no way shape or form even remotely sustainable with this many people on the planet aka mouths to feed. In fact look at current costs of living vs wages. Climate issues aside things aren’t even sustainable as it is and that’s without extreme downsizing.

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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    7 months ago

    The only thing is that this diagram makes it seem like the sea levels rising is caused by ice melting, while in reality it is because as water heats up, it expands.

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        7 months ago

        Sure, but the amount of ice on land is but a small spec compared to the water in the ocean.

        If all the ice in the world melted, it wouldn’t affect the ocean level that much. Compared to thermal expansion of the water.

        Ice melting is a symptom, not a cause.

  • VeganTomato@lemmy.today
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    7 months ago

    This is such fake liberal shit, everyone knows the polar ice caps are thicker than they’ve been in the last thousand years. If you believe this liberal doomsday shit you are one sorry individual SMH.

    • orcrist@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      IKR? If only we had some way of capturing photographic evidence from satellites and aerial photography that would let us map the advance and retreat of glaciers around the world. That would be really useful technology in ensuring that facts could be used when discussing this important issue.

      Oh well, I guess it’s too technical to ask for such things after all. Maybe Elon Musk can do something about it in the next decade.

      • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
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        7 months ago

        Maybe we could also survey the underside of the ice caps at the same time, while we’re at it? Oh, we’re alrrady doing that and it’s horrible? Alright.

    • Caspase8@aussie.zone
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      7 months ago

      Arctic sea ice has been consistently shrinking since at least 1980. So have the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets. The East Antarctic ice sheet has by contrast been constantly growing since records began, which is probably where you got your factoid from. But this is due to local phenomena, such as the Antarctic ozone hole, increasing westerly wind strength and increasing snowfall. East Antarctica is one of the few regions which seems to have escaped the effects of climate change (so far).

      There’s almost no doubt that the world is warming overall due to human activity. The fossil fuel industry doesn’t like this, so they put out propaganda to counter facts. Do your own research :).