Hamas has indicated it is currently unable to identify and track down 40 Israeli hostages needed for the first phase of a ceasefire deal, according to an Israeli official and a source familiar with the discussions, raising fears that more hostages may be dead than are publicly known.
  • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
    0·
    6 months ago

    Article is way better than the headline…

    The framework that has been laid out by negotiators says that during a first six-week pause in the fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages, including all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons.

    Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said.

    CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.

    Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.

    Most hostages are combatants, and that doesn’t meet the details for this requirement

    The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age.

    • Rapidcreek@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.

      Totally untrue

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        6 months ago

        Where are Hamas getting them?

        Like, do you think this is an actual war where both sides attack each other’s territories?

        Seriously, at what point in the last six months would Hamas have captured non combatants?

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            Try to keepup.

            I have…

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli–Palestinian_prisoner_exchange

            Again, your own article says CNN knows there aren’t 40 hostages left that aren’t noncombatants.

            Israel keeps taking civilians hostage, so they have enough.

            Since 10/7 the only Israelis Hamas interacts with are combatants. They literally don’t have enough hostages left for this deal, which is likely how the deal arrived at that number.

            It’s something that literally is impossible to comply with, and Israel gets to blame Hamas.

            This ain’t complicated bub. Your own source agrees with me.

            You should read it

        • Stovetop@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          I am not here to give Israel a W, but Hamas still has a number of civilian captives from the original October 7 attack. Just not as many surviving as was assumed.

          According to Israel’s own figures, there are 90 or so living hostages and 30 or so bodies still held by Hamas IIRC. Apparently most of the 90 survivors are non-civilians, based on what Hamas is saying, but some of them still are.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            According to Israel’s own figures,

            But not according to anyone else’s…

            Israel has been flattening the entire area, they can’t keep track of how many they kill, regardless of what country they’re from.

            But the article OP linked even says there aren’t 40 noncombatants left…

            CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.

            I’m not sure what you’re not understanding about this.

            Or why you’re listening to Israel still

            • Stovetop@lemmy.worldEnglish
              0·
              6 months ago

              But the article OP linked even says there aren’t 40 noncombatants left…

              Right, I acknowledged that. It’s just that no one knows who specifically is counted in the alive vs dead hostage statistics. It wouldn’t surprise me if Israel purposefully set a number of civilians that they knew had likely already died, knowing that Hamas would not be able to comply with the request, to justify continuing the conflict.

            • Stovetop@lemmy.worldEnglish
              0·
              6 months ago

              I would say take it with a grain of salt, but there’s enough international scrutiny that I would say the list of missing is probably reliable enough. People in Israel are still protesting the Israeli government about that very frequently. Not everyone missing from October 7th has been returned, alive or dead. Many probably buried beneath rubble from IDF attacks, to be honest, since several were already confirmed killed by “friendly” fire.

              Edit: to add, it is worth noting that Hamas is not the only group that participated in Oct 7 and took hostages. There are likely other hostages that they cannot account for because they were taken by other groups.

    • fukhueson@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      6 months ago

      Good thing negotiations continue.

      With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        6 months ago

        So…

        Hamas gets hostages returned that are women, children, and elderly, all noncombatants.

        They get them back into Gaza where there’s no food and no zones safe from Israeli attacks…

        And Israeli gets back some of their boots on the ground war criminals so they can go right back to genocide?

        If you were trying to be sarcastic use a “/s”, otherwise people will think that was a serious comment.

        • fukhueson@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          6 months ago

          I was quoting the article, which contained important information. I would presume that the hostages want to return home, as do their loved ones. I don’t think that the number of combatants released by Hamas would constitute a significant increase to Israel’s fighting force, at least in the numbers mentioned in the article, and this seems like a bad excuse to disrupt hostage exchanges.

          Edit, so I’m not presuming, sources:

          https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/talks-intensify-extend-israel-hamas-truce-after-more-hostages-prisoners-freed-2023-11-30/

          The other two newly released hostages were a brother and sister, Belal and Aisha al-Ziadna, aged 18 and 17 respectively, according to the Israeli prime minister’s office. They are Bedouin Arab citizens of Israel and among four members of their family taken hostage while they were milking cows on a farm.

          Wahid Alhuzail, who chairs a group for Bedouins kidnapped on Oct. 7, said he was happy they were freed. “But it’s not completely fulfilling. We want everyone to come home and for nobody to be stuck in the hands of the terror organization Hamas,” he told Reuters.

          https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-official-says-want-hostages-go-home-rcna123396

          “We want these people to go home,” Hamad said. “And, also, we want our prisoners now to go home. So I think we are ready now to have complete compromise, complete a deal, in order to receive all the hostages, either military or civilians.”

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
            0·
            6 months ago

            I was quoting the article

            And I was explaining how combatants and noncombatants are different…

            One are victims of genocide, and the others are literally actively committing a genocide.

            • fukhueson@lemmy.worldEnglish
              0·
              6 months ago

              FTA:

              The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age. Hamas is expected to try to use to them in later phases to try to negotiate more significant concessions, including more high-level prisoners and a permanent end to the war.

              Yes, they understand the difference, but seemingly not in the same way you do, they seem to think releasing soldiers could help end the conflict.

              Edit: also your reply doesn’t address what I said.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.worldEnglish
                0·
                6 months ago

                …

                The “later phases” is exchanging combatants…

                And they’re willing to do that. Just not for noncombatants.

                It’s very simple, I’m not sure how to put any plainer.