You mean Israel went into negotiations making unreasonable demands? Like almost every other time?
There are supposed to be 136 hostages in Gaza.
At one point both Israel and Hamas seemed to agree that there were approximately
200250 hostages.https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-do-we-now-about-hamas-hostages-2023-10-19/
HOW MANY HOSTAGES ARE THERE?
An estimated 200 people, including 30 teenagers and young children and 20 people over the age of 60, are being held hostage in Gaza, Israel’s public broadcaster Kan said on Thursday, citing military sources.
Hamas says it has 200 hostages and that 50 more are held by other armed groups in the enclave. It said more than 20 hostages have been killed by Israeli air strikes, but has not given any further details.
Edit:
Wikipedia cites a slightly higher numberhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli–Palestinian_prisoner_exchange
In November 2023, Palestinian militants held around 250 people from Israel, including Israeli nationals and non-Israelis following their capture during the Hamas-led attack on Israel.
Edit 2: my mistake, they corroborate their numbers (250)
They are probably still there, check hospitals, community centres, school, emergency camps… you will probably find their corpses under all the rubble from Israeli fired American and British missiles.
…
According to who?
The IDF?
Why would anyone be listening to them at this point? They lie constantly about damn near everything…
I mean this is publicly verifiable information in terms of who went missing on Oct. 7th. It would be foolish to lie about it.
It would be foolish to lie about it.
And we all know Israel never makes foolish lies.
https://time.com/6176045/israel-response-shireen-abu-akleh-killing/
I mean IDF has been dishonest certainly but this is something that has been thoroughly examined and vetted by this point. We would know if there were doubts about the number.
These events are also different because they are singular points in time—the lies serve to diffuse criticism until the public attention has faded so that less invested members of the public never learn the truth. So I’m not sure I agree they are foolish unfortunately, though there is of course a long term risk with using this tactic too often.
The hostage count is an ongoing thing. If they continued to stand by numbers that people are commonly discussing and have learned are incorrect, it would be much more embarrassing for them than the above incidents which are mostly forgotten by the general public, excepting perhaps the most recent one which did seem to break through a bit more.
Theyre dead, Jim
What is amazing is that there are some that are ever ready to quote numbers given by Hamas, when they can’t even track 40 hostages.
CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.
So…
Even the source of the article you posted is wrong?
Did you even read the article or just the headline?
The look of a poker player that ran out of chips…
They’ve found bodies of hostages all the time. One just yesterday. I suppose you could do some math to estimate probability of who is living. Only Hamas would know,except they claim not to.
They’re saying less than 40…
Which is what CNN is saying…
The only one saying more is Israel, and how the hell would they know when they’ve spent 6 months flattening everything?
Do you think they know when they blow up and kill Israelis?
Like, you think they’re going in and sorting thru the rubble to check?
There’s no logical reason Israel would have any idea.
Like, you’ve been saying we need to listen to Israel’s numbers. You’re still saying we have to…
And then this:
Only Hamas would know,except they claim not to.
There’s no logical consistency, you’re claiming two opposite things at the same time
Article is way better than the headline…
The framework that has been laid out by negotiators says that during a first six-week pause in the fighting, Hamas should release 40 of the remaining hostages, including all the women as well as sick and elderly men. In exchange, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners would be released from Israeli prisons.
Hamas has told international mediators – which include Qatar and Egypt - it does not have 40 living hostages who match those criteria for release, both sources said.
CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.
Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.
Most hostages are combatants, and that doesn’t meet the details for this requirement
The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age.
Hamas just hasn’t been taking civilian noncombatants as hostages like Israel has been doing.
Totally untrue
Where are Hamas getting them?
Like, do you think this is an actual war where both sides attack each other’s territories?
Seriously, at what point in the last six months would Hamas have captured non combatants?
The hostages were taken on October 7th of last year. Try to keepup.
And they’ve been repeatedly bombed for the past several months, try to keep up.
Try to keepup.
I have…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli–Palestinian_prisoner_exchange
Again, your own article says CNN knows there aren’t 40 hostages left that aren’t noncombatants.
Israel keeps taking civilians hostage, so they have enough.
Since 10/7 the only Israelis Hamas interacts with are combatants. They literally don’t have enough hostages left for this deal, which is likely how the deal arrived at that number.
It’s something that literally is impossible to comply with, and Israel gets to blame Hamas.
This ain’t complicated bub. Your own source agrees with me.
You should read it
I am not here to give Israel a W, but Hamas still has a number of civilian captives from the original October 7 attack. Just not as many surviving as was assumed.
According to Israel’s own figures, there are 90 or so living hostages and 30 or so bodies still held by Hamas IIRC. Apparently most of the 90 survivors are non-civilians, based on what Hamas is saying, but some of them still are.
According to Israel’s own figures
Therein lies the problem.
I would say take it with a grain of salt, but there’s enough international scrutiny that I would say the list of missing is probably reliable enough. People in Israel are still protesting the Israeli government about that very frequently. Not everyone missing from October 7th has been returned, alive or dead. Many probably buried beneath rubble from IDF attacks, to be honest, since several were already confirmed killed by “friendly” fire.
Edit: to add, it is worth noting that Hamas is not the only group that participated in Oct 7 and took hostages. There are likely other hostages that they cannot account for because they were taken by other groups.
According to Israel’s own figures,
But not according to anyone else’s…
Israel has been flattening the entire area, they can’t keep track of how many they kill, regardless of what country they’re from.
But the article OP linked even says there aren’t 40 noncombatants left…
CNN’s record of the conditions of the hostages also suggests there are fewer than 40 living hostages who meet the proposed criteria.
I’m not sure what you’re not understanding about this.
Or why you’re listening to Israel still
But the article OP linked even says there aren’t 40 noncombatants left…
Right, I acknowledged that. It’s just that no one knows who specifically is counted in the alive vs dead hostage statistics. It wouldn’t surprise me if Israel purposefully set a number of civilians that they knew had likely already died, knowing that Hamas would not be able to comply with the request, to justify continuing the conflict.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-hostages-israel-gaza-41432124
The Palestinian militants who raided Israel in the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7 killed over 1,200 people, according to Israel, and abducted over 240 civilians and soldiers, bringing them back to the Gaza Strip.
Good thing negotiations continue.
With Hamas appearing to be unable to reach 40 in the proposed categories, Israel has pushed for Hamas to fill out the initial release with younger male hostages, including soldiers, the Israeli official said.
So…
Hamas gets hostages returned that are women, children, and elderly, all noncombatants.
They get them back into Gaza where there’s no food and no zones safe from Israeli attacks…
And Israeli gets back some of their boots on the ground war criminals so they can go right back to genocide?
If you were trying to be sarcastic use a “/s”, otherwise people will think that was a serious comment.
I was quoting the article, which contained important information. I would presume that the hostages want to return home, as do their loved ones. I don’t think that the number of combatants released by Hamas would constitute a significant increase to Israel’s fighting force, at least in the numbers mentioned in the article, and this seems like a bad excuse to disrupt hostage exchanges.
Edit, so I’m not presuming, sources:
The other two newly released hostages were a brother and sister, Belal and Aisha al-Ziadna, aged 18 and 17 respectively, according to the Israeli prime minister’s office. They are Bedouin Arab citizens of Israel and among four members of their family taken hostage while they were milking cows on a farm.
Wahid Alhuzail, who chairs a group for Bedouins kidnapped on Oct. 7, said he was happy they were freed. “But it’s not completely fulfilling. We want everyone to come home and for nobody to be stuck in the hands of the terror organization Hamas,” he told Reuters.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hamas-official-says-want-hostages-go-home-rcna123396
“We want these people to go home,” Hamad said. “And, also, we want our prisoners now to go home. So I think we are ready now to have complete compromise, complete a deal, in order to receive all the hostages, either military or civilians.”
I was quoting the article
And I was explaining how combatants and noncombatants are different…
One are victims of genocide, and the others are literally actively committing a genocide.
FTA:
The majority of the almost 100 hostages who remain alive are believed to be male IDF soldiers or men of military reserve age. Hamas is expected to try to use to them in later phases to try to negotiate more significant concessions, including more high-level prisoners and a permanent end to the war.
Yes, they understand the difference, but seemingly not in the same way you do, they seem to think releasing soldiers could help end the conflict.
Edit: also your reply doesn’t address what I said.
…
The “later phases” is exchanging combatants…
And they’re willing to do that. Just not for noncombatants.
It’s very simple, I’m not sure how to put any plainer.
These statements are not supported by the article.