Is this a vegan org? It doesn’t mention anything about their members adhering to a plant-based diet, and it would certainly make me uncomfortable if they weren’t.
Along with what others have said, you’re also falling for the oil industry’s years long campaign to heave onto us the responsibility to fix the mess they created, knew about, covered up, and gaslighted everyone on.
A group is having a real impact on the people and companies that are 85%-95% responsible for the mess we’re in…and you question the climate group? Like…that’s such weirdly unnecessary bootlicking. You probably don’t realize you’re doing it—or maybe you do, I dunno. But this is the same tactic used every single time a reporter is trying to discredit a spokesperson for any climate action group—the shitty conservative reporters too, like Pierce Morgan.
You can find other orgs that fight against climate change who promote veganism within their organization and to the general population. Greenpeace, for example. Hell, even Greta Thunberg, who’s had more of an impact than these other guys, is vegan.
The idea is to “be the change”, and you can’t be telling one group (i.e. the fossil fuel industry) to stop doing what they are doing, while acting in ways that demonstrably harm the environment needlessly.
A plant-based diet, perhaps above all else, is one of the most powerful tools we have to fight climate change. And once you convince one person to go vegan, they will likely change their lifestyle beyond diet to reduce their carbon footprint and rely less on the fossil fuel industry.
The industry won’t go anywhere if they still have 8 billion customers. As individuals, our day-to-day lives impact their bottom line; we can make them money, or we can prevent them from making money.
I don’t discredit their efforts, but their credibility. It would go a long way if their members showed that they were serious about climate change in their own lives, while fighting against the industry.
Anyway, I just asked the question, since I don’t know this group. Perhaps they are all vegans, and they go after the livestock industry, too.
Yeah, of course it’s always good. No one is denying that.
But my point is the context. Following an article about a climate group that is seeing positive results in hounding the fuck out of some of the assholes responsible, your reaction actually runs cover for the assholes. See what I’m saying?
“Average citizen foils a home robbery as he’s walking by with his dog.”
You: “pfft. But does he volunteer his time to help those people starving in his city?”
Like, what the fuck? Yes, we all know it’s good to cut out what you can—it’s better to ride a bike than drive a car. It’s better to eat less meat than meat all the time. It’s better to be vegetarian than eat meat. It’s better to be vegan than vegetarian. But to say if you’re not doing ALL OF THE ABOVE, FUCK YOU doesn’t help anyone but the people truly responsible for the climate crisis. It’s turning your attention away from those who output megatonnes carbon into the atmosphere and who literally engineered the term “carbon footprint” to shift blame and focus away from them (which you have picked up the torch on, which is my point) and onto us, the people who don’t put out in a year what one of these companies is responsible for in a day or a week.
Again, you’re not wrong, it’s great to do what you personally can, but in this context, you’re not proving that point. You’re saying, “oh yeah, well what’s your carbon footprint?! Did you make those signs out of recycled paper? Did you drive here to make this climate change denier face their crimes?!” For that, you kinda suck in this context. No offense.
and it would certainly make me uncomfortable if they weren’t.
I was going to be very mean to you, then I took a deep breath and realized that it wasn’t worth it.
I would invite you to realize that for every 10 articles detailing how bad climate change is, there are maybe 1 of these articles. Tell me, what exactly are you doing by poking holes here? This organization has the potential to create far more lasting change than you being vegan ever will. What do you gain by pointing this out?
While going vegan is a good thing for the environment, not everyone can or is willing to switch completely. You can reduce your meat intake and eating more plant based foods without going full vegan.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good enough, especially at an individual level.
Perfect is the enemy of good enough, the goal should be for everyone to reduce their footprint, and we shouldn’t be splitting hair and arguing that everyone should go vegan. That’s unrealistic.
At the scale of a country if we get 90% of the people to reduce their red meat and dairy intake by 60% it would be a massive win already.
Roughly 15% of the world population has IBS which means a much larger number than 0.1% cannot go vegan (I’m one of them). I try my best to reduce my food footprint but there’s only so much I can do.
Also by your reasoning you can’t be a member of an organisation fighting against climate change if you’re not vegan, that’s a great way to drive people away from the cause…
Perfect is the enemy of good enough, the goal should be for everyone to reduce their footprint
I agree. The aim isn’t to be perfect, but hell, we should at least make a minimal effort.
At the scale of a country if we get 90% of the people to reduce their red meat and dairy intake by 60% it would be a massive win already.
We don’t need 90% or 60%. Even 10% would create massive shifts in multiple industries responsible for harming the environment. And if a group is in a position to promote plant-based diets, they really should. As a minimum for change.
Roughly 15% of the world population has IBS which means a much larger number than 0.1% cannot go vegan (I’m one of them). I try my best to reduce my food footprint but there’s only so much I can do.
I’m not trying to force anyone who medically can’t go vegan, to hurt themselves. Veganism entails not using animal products, not just avoiding their consumption.
But I’m assuming the entire organization isn’t made up of people with IBS, so they should still be promoting a vegan lifestyle when possible.
Also by your reasoning you can’t be a member of an organisation fighting against climate change if you’re not vegan, that’s a great way to drive people away from the cause…
Not true. That’s like saying they can’t be members if they own a car. Granted, I would highly question any environmental group where every member drove a car for all their trips.
What matters is the message and whether individuals in the organization are making an effort to be better, not just yell at politicians and industry leaders.
The article is about fighting oil and gas and you bring up veganism and state that if they’re not vegans they aren’t truly fighting for the cause?? Defeating oil and gas would be a great thing for the world and being vegan has nothing to do with any of it. But way to keep your eye on the prize Showroom. They certainly can’t lobby to make the world a better place if they eat chicken nuggets from time to time. The Audacity of these people.
They’re not really trying to change minds, they’re just crashing fossil fuel parties. We’ll have to see if they crash meat industry parties too. I doubt it.
It’s pretty common for people to fail at understanding systemic problems, unfortunately. We’ll see what other groups do after this one fails and disbands.
One of the biggest things you can do to dilute your message as a group, especially a small group, is to choose too many targets. As you said elsewhere, Greenpeace is already promoting veganism, as is PETA and a number of other groups. These guys don’t need to jump on that bandwagon to get the message out. Let them focus on what they’re doing, which also needs to be done. Otherwise, all you’re doing is redirecting criticism from the bad actors to the people trying to make them stop.
Oh noes, that organization that really makes an impact in bettering the world doesn’t support my particular pet peeve, they suck!
It’s this attitude why most grass roots organisations fail. As soon as a group gains some traction, you have all these.peoplemlike you immediately trying to inject their issues in there. I remember this happening to occupy Wall Street, that started good, then it toren itself apart when they needed to add all the other issues, racism, lgbtqfjwkskgr, Womens rights, animal rights, and so on… Meanwhile the coke sniffing assholes were laughing at them from a high balcony with champagne in their claws I shit you not.
How about you just tell them: well done, please do some more! Can I help you with your cause? Maybe one day we’ll look at my particular cause, but that can wait a day.
Your behavior is the reason why we can’t have nice things, please stop it
Is this a vegan org? It doesn’t mention anything about their members adhering to a plant-based diet, and it would certainly make me uncomfortable if they weren’t.
Along with what others have said, you’re also falling for the oil industry’s years long campaign to heave onto us the responsibility to fix the mess they created, knew about, covered up, and gaslighted everyone on.
A group is having a real impact on the people and companies that are 85%-95% responsible for the mess we’re in…and you question the climate group? Like…that’s such weirdly unnecessary bootlicking. You probably don’t realize you’re doing it—or maybe you do, I dunno. But this is the same tactic used every single time a reporter is trying to discredit a spokesperson for any climate action group—the shitty conservative reporters too, like Pierce Morgan.
So…you’re not in good company.
You can find other orgs that fight against climate change who promote veganism within their organization and to the general population. Greenpeace, for example. Hell, even Greta Thunberg, who’s had more of an impact than these other guys, is vegan.
The idea is to “be the change”, and you can’t be telling one group (i.e. the fossil fuel industry) to stop doing what they are doing, while acting in ways that demonstrably harm the environment needlessly.
A plant-based diet, perhaps above all else, is one of the most powerful tools we have to fight climate change. And once you convince one person to go vegan, they will likely change their lifestyle beyond diet to reduce their carbon footprint and rely less on the fossil fuel industry.
The industry won’t go anywhere if they still have 8 billion customers. As individuals, our day-to-day lives impact their bottom line; we can make them money, or we can prevent them from making money.
I don’t discredit their efforts, but their credibility. It would go a long way if their members showed that they were serious about climate change in their own lives, while fighting against the industry.
Anyway, I just asked the question, since I don’t know this group. Perhaps they are all vegans, and they go after the livestock industry, too.
Yeah, of course it’s always good. No one is denying that.
But my point is the context. Following an article about a climate group that is seeing positive results in hounding the fuck out of some of the assholes responsible, your reaction actually runs cover for the assholes. See what I’m saying?
“Average citizen foils a home robbery as he’s walking by with his dog.”
You: “pfft. But does he volunteer his time to help those people starving in his city?”
Like, what the fuck? Yes, we all know it’s good to cut out what you can—it’s better to ride a bike than drive a car. It’s better to eat less meat than meat all the time. It’s better to be vegetarian than eat meat. It’s better to be vegan than vegetarian. But to say if you’re not doing ALL OF THE ABOVE, FUCK YOU doesn’t help anyone but the people truly responsible for the climate crisis. It’s turning your attention away from those who output megatonnes carbon into the atmosphere and who literally engineered the term “carbon footprint” to shift blame and focus away from them (which you have picked up the torch on, which is my point) and onto us, the people who don’t put out in a year what one of these companies is responsible for in a day or a week.
Again, you’re not wrong, it’s great to do what you personally can, but in this context, you’re not proving that point. You’re saying, “oh yeah, well what’s your carbon footprint?! Did you make those signs out of recycled paper? Did you drive here to make this climate change denier face their crimes?!” For that, you kinda suck in this context. No offense.
Adhering to dogmatic ideas of ideological purity is detrimental to the environmentalist cause.
I was going to be very mean to you, then I took a deep breath and realized that it wasn’t worth it.
I would invite you to realize that for every 10 articles detailing how bad climate change is, there are maybe 1 of these articles. Tell me, what exactly are you doing by poking holes here? This organization has the potential to create far more lasting change than you being vegan ever will. What do you gain by pointing this out?
While going vegan is a good thing for the environment, not everyone can or is willing to switch completely. You can reduce your meat intake and eating more plant based foods without going full vegan.
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good enough, especially at an individual level.
It’s quite literally one of the most impactful things you can do as an individual.
99.99% of people can, but an org that’s fighting to end climate change really should have that be their minimum for members.
Greenpeace, for example, promotes veganism all the time. I’d trust them more than these other guys.
Perfect is the enemy of good enough, the goal should be for everyone to reduce their footprint, and we shouldn’t be splitting hair and arguing that everyone should go vegan. That’s unrealistic.
At the scale of a country if we get 90% of the people to reduce their red meat and dairy intake by 60% it would be a massive win already.
Roughly 15% of the world population has IBS which means a much larger number than 0.1% cannot go vegan (I’m one of them). I try my best to reduce my food footprint but there’s only so much I can do.
Also by your reasoning you can’t be a member of an organisation fighting against climate change if you’re not vegan, that’s a great way to drive people away from the cause…
I agree. The aim isn’t to be perfect, but hell, we should at least make a minimal effort.
We don’t need 90% or 60%. Even 10% would create massive shifts in multiple industries responsible for harming the environment. And if a group is in a position to promote plant-based diets, they really should. As a minimum for change.
I’m not trying to force anyone who medically can’t go vegan, to hurt themselves. Veganism entails not using animal products, not just avoiding their consumption.
But I’m assuming the entire organization isn’t made up of people with IBS, so they should still be promoting a vegan lifestyle when possible.
Not true. That’s like saying they can’t be members if they own a car. Granted, I would highly question any environmental group where every member drove a car for all their trips.
What matters is the message and whether individuals in the organization are making an effort to be better, not just yell at politicians and industry leaders.
“Lead by example”, “be the change”, and all that…
Do you do CrossFit too?
The article is about fighting oil and gas and you bring up veganism and state that if they’re not vegans they aren’t truly fighting for the cause?? Defeating oil and gas would be a great thing for the world and being vegan has nothing to do with any of it. But way to keep your eye on the prize Showroom. They certainly can’t lobby to make the world a better place if they eat chicken nuggets from time to time. The Audacity of these people.
I use Arch btw
Thank you
They’re not really trying to change minds, they’re just crashing fossil fuel parties. We’ll have to see if they crash meat industry parties too. I doubt it.
It’s pretty common for people to fail at understanding systemic problems, unfortunately. We’ll see what other groups do after this one fails and disbands.
One of the biggest things you can do to dilute your message as a group, especially a small group, is to choose too many targets. As you said elsewhere, Greenpeace is already promoting veganism, as is PETA and a number of other groups. These guys don’t need to jump on that bandwagon to get the message out. Let them focus on what they’re doing, which also needs to be done. Otherwise, all you’re doing is redirecting criticism from the bad actors to the people trying to make them stop.
Oh noes, that organization that really makes an impact in bettering the world doesn’t support my particular pet peeve, they suck!
It’s this attitude why most grass roots organisations fail. As soon as a group gains some traction, you have all these.peoplemlike you immediately trying to inject their issues in there. I remember this happening to occupy Wall Street, that started good, then it toren itself apart when they needed to add all the other issues, racism, lgbtqfjwkskgr, Womens rights, animal rights, and so on… Meanwhile the coke sniffing assholes were laughing at them from a high balcony with champagne in their claws I shit you not.
How about you just tell them: well done, please do some more! Can I help you with your cause? Maybe one day we’ll look at my particular cause, but that can wait a day.
Your behavior is the reason why we can’t have nice things, please stop it