I don’t blame them. Ukraine needs to take the war to Russia to win.
As an American, I support Ukraine droning inside Russia. Fuck up their power plants, oil production, and bases! I believe most Americans would agree that in war, this tactic is fair game.
Power plants are not valid military targets though. No one should be attacking those and it’s always wrong to do so.
Maybe. But destroying the Russian dictatorship is a moral obligation for everyone in the free world.
All Russian infrastructure and assets are valid targets. Both inside and outside of Russia.
Power plants are not valid military targets though.
Yes apples are not oranges, so why are you trying to change the subject?
AFAIK there is not a single example of Ukraine attacking power plants in Russia.
An oil depot or refinery is NOT a powerplant. Russia has more than enough oil to serve their population, but maybe they can’t serve the military 100% too, if Russia chooses to prioritize their illegal military invasion over their own population, that’s a Russian problem. As long as Russia prioritize oil for their military, oil is a valid military target.I’m not trying to change the subject. The OP tried to slip a war crime target in with valid military targets, and I wanted to set the record straight.
Buddy, I can smell the straw from here. Ukraine isn’t attacking Russia’s critical infrastructure out of some need for retribution. If a grizzly bear attacks you, you hit that thing in any sensitive spot you can reach until it backs off. Otherwise you’re dead. That’s the situation Ukraine has been in from the start. They’ve been persistently outgunned and outmanned. The only way to get Russia to stop is to hit them where it hurts.
I’m not making some kind of strawman argument. I’m correcting the OP, because attacking civilian infrastructure is a war crime. If Russia starts using chemical weapons, should Ukraine start too? If you have any sense of ethics, you’d say no.
Congratulations, you’ve successfully justified a war crime.
Power plants areUkraine is not a valid military target though. No one should be attackingthoseit and it’s always wrong to do so.FTFY
Well yes, but starting a war suddenly and without declaration isn’t a war crime.
Well yes, butstarting a warsuddenly and without declaration isn’tis awarcrime.FTFY as well.
Look, I’m about as anti-war as they come. But in the capitalist neoliberal rules-based order, war happens constantly all over the world and the best we can do is enforce the provisions of the Geneva Convention. No good will come from equating war generally with war crimes right now. There will be a point where we can call war a crime against humanity, but the Overton window isn’t there yet.
Why are you framing it as if capitalism and neoliberalism are causing war? Isn’t this one of the most peaceful times in human history?
Citation needed
Civilian infrastructure can in fact a valid target if it assist the military. Electricity generation is used to maintain many military systems, including telecommunications, logistics, lighting, radar systems, and all sorts of manufacturing capability that assists the military.
Sorry, Russia already lost the right to say Ukraine shouldn’t be hitting their power plants.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If Russia started using VX gas, would it be acceptable for Ukraine to start using Sarin? Absolutely fucking not. There is never a legitimate excuse for a war crime.
It’s morally wrong to do so. At the end of the day, like every single other war in the human history sadly , the right side is the winning one, be It bombing power plants, hospitals or houses.
Unless nobody wins. Attacking targets with no clear strategic advantage out of spite is animalistic and stupid. Just take out the relay stations.
Seems I’m getting downvoted. Just to be clear, I condemn war and armed conflicts, If i could make so, no guns would ever be fired.
My point is, it’s pointless to argue about the “should be” or “could be”, I’m just stating the actual, current state of matters.
There’s ALWAYS a winner, in fact, If a war started, someone is already winning, be It one of the involved parties, be It a guns supplier or a manufacturing plant making tanks.
It’s naive to think that, people with power to decide what to do in a war, will prioritize a “good and moral war”, over getting what they want from It.
Maybe you and I can’t see any advantage over an attack and label It stupid, but it is what it is, and maybe the actual intent is not clear to us.
Anyways, war is bad, but don’t be naive.
In war, everyone loses.
I beg to differ: Adnan Khashoggi, a famous arms dealer, considered one the richest mans of the 1980s, active on the Iran-Contra affair. Viktor Bout, famous russian arms dealer active on the FARC. Sir Basil Zaharoff, greek arms dealer active on the Balkan Wars
And these are just a few most notorious ones.
As I said, when a war starts, someone is already winning, it’s a sad but true reality.
As they should, I hope they somehow take out Putin
US to Israel: is ok bb don’t worry big daddy will take care of those deadly deadly dwones for you, here have another million dollars and Google AI
US to Ukraine: pls don’t drone Russia :(
Ukraine should only consider the comments of countries sending money and weapons.
When the US starts to send money again, then the US can comment.
If Ukraine wants US money, maybe they should listen to them?
The US isn’t the one being invaded. The Biden admin’s insistence that Ukraine fight with a hand tied behind their back is ridiculous, it makes Biden look incompetent and weak to not commit to this.
I feel it’s a seismic shift in the position of the USA as a world power. Netanyahu has stopped listening and has faced no repercussions, so naturally Zelenskyy is doing the same. Completely withdrawing support for both Israel and Ukraine doesn’t appear to be in the USA’s best interests.
This could be a stretch but maybe it has to do with Trump and the likelihood he’s going to turn around and tell both sides to quit prolonging these wars and either finish off their opponents or get to signing a peace treaty.
For Israel it means escalating (as evidenced by how they’re poking the other bear - Iran - in the region) and for the Ukraine doing as much damage as possible to weaken the Russians so a peace treaty appears the better option over continuing to fight against an opponent who won’t lay down.
I could also be talking out of my exhaust pipe. I’ve been paying less and less attention to these conflicts the longer they’ve gone on.
That filthy orange traitor isn’t getting back into the Whitehouse
And it’s just Ukraine, not “the Ukraine”. Your use of the official Russian belittlement tells me all I need to know.
In Australian media they are referred to as Ukraine and the Ukraine. You certainly missed that I used both conventions. Try not to assume that the language used denotes a position.
As for Trump, I certainly hope he is not elected again, but the election needs to happen first.
Israel doesn’t, they get US money all the time.
The Saudis as well. Despite 9/11.
A what should they listen to? This false news like you?
Didn’t they just approve an aid package this morning?
In addition to the 80 billion they’ve already sent?
It went through the house, it is not yet approved. And for 8 months now, Ukraine has gotten no support from the US.
What, really? August was the last aid package?
Stop posting paywalled articles
What warnings? Last I heard the very deliberate language was that the US “Did not encourage” strikes inside Russian territory. Has that language escalated?
Can’t read the article due to the torrent of pop ups unfortunately because I’m very interested to know the basis of the headline.
The article is paywalled anyway.
The basis for the title is that Ukraine is still hitting targets in Russia. Honestly, I don’t believe the US was serious about their comments opposing those strikes. US oil companies will just make more profits after all.
I believe the argument was that it would raise global oil prices but that wouldn’t make sense unless Russia is doing a better job of bypassing sanctions than we know about. There have been rumblings of Russia using intermediate countries to move oil and other resources, so there is that.
And note the source. It’s basically an industry rag.
If anything, it’s an obligatory, “no… please… don’t…” to maintain plausible deniability.
I like the Economist but maybe posting their articles here should be avoided since no one can obviously read them so everyone is just commenting about the headline.
Lolol Ukraine trading the war to Russia.
Putin is a cunt but that’s a pipe dream.
this is a fake story, there haven’t been any “warnings”… it’s pure propaganda being shoveled by the Russians…
Bingo. IF anyone said something it was more like, “it would be terrible if you accidentally blew up this target at these coordinates following this route through Russia’s shit air defense. Why that would be a real shame and potentially piss Russia off.”
You’re calling the economist Russian propaganda? Jesus Christ, you really have lost the thread 🤣.
No, he’s calling the story Russian propaganda.
Oh huge difference! The biggest difference. Definitely not pedantics.
I don’t know you, so I won’t say that you’re an idiot. But your comment is idiotic.
See? It doesn’t have to be pedantic.
“Anything I don’t agree with is Russian propaganda.”
There was only one claim being called a Russian propaganda, and that is the warning from US.
Why don’t you disprove that instead of acting like an idiot and copy pasting some tired old troll comments?
you’re obviously a troll… there haven’t been any “warnings”, you troll… the Ukrainians are free to bomb the Kremlin…
they are shoveling Russian propaganda for some reason, like a lot of people do either knowingly or not
Apt, considering what the US did in the Middle East with their own drones.
How about this: we’re allowed to tell them how to run their war as long as we supply them an uninterrupted pipeline of the shit they need to win it the way they’re telling us to.
Oh wait: we already tried that, except we not only didn’t even do it well, but also didn’t hold up our end of the bargain because of fucking fascist far-right politicians. So we kinda fucked that one up, didn’t we?
I hate that it took this long but the aid package cleared the house and is expected to clear the Senate. This just happened yesterday https://www.npr.org/2024/04/21/1246170238/ukraine-military-assistance-house-vote-mike-johnson-volodymr-zelenskyy
Oh I know. All I’m saying is that we lost any semblance of justification for exerting strategic oversight of their war is gone, considering the political fuckery we just pulled in the last 6 months that had very real and negative consequences for Ukraine.
Oh yeah that’s absolutely fair! I mainly threw this comment up because it’s super fresh news so I was hoping to help spread it a bit.
Ukraine is usa “ally” now, they must do what usa says
Israel doesn’t, and they bombed Syria and Iran, as well as Gaza, Lebanon and… where else?
And why shouldn’t they?
Removed by mod
Why would the USA expect Ukraine to listen to them when Israel gets more aid & regularly lies to the USA with 0 repercussions?
Israel gets more aid
Israel probably hasn’t gotten more aid in the last 2 years but overall they might have. Also, assuming this is even true, why would Ukraine listen to the US since they have abandoned support of Ukraine?
