In the Dune universe, when a laser weapons hits a shield, both are destroyed in a nuclear explosion reaction.
So instead of building nuclear weapons, wouldn’t it be easier to tie a timer and a “parachute” to a laser gun and drop it from orbit onto your enemy’s city?
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The reaction between a shield and laser is completely random, not knowing wether you are going to vaporise a few molecules, an entire city or everything in between makes it very unreliable for warfare purposes.
And you’d probably find the whole Landsraad against you, as using atomics is outlawed. While a bomb like that isn’t an atomic weapon by definition, the effects are the same and it stands to reason that they’ll therefore still retaliate in full force.
The reaction between a shield and laser is completely random
Is this mentioned in the book? I can’t recall.
It is, in the opening as well as (more briefly) when Duncan leaves his shield in the desert as a booby trap for the Harkonnen search parties.
Hmm, I’ve taken a look and can only find references to the location being random so far. I was quite sure that I’ve also read that the magnitude could vary, but maybe I misremembered. I’ll dig a little further and see if I can find a reference.
I remember that the location of the reaction is random and happens anywhere along the beam path. So they are safer to use at long range like from orbit as the reaction is less likely to be close to the shooter.
My understanding is that such a technique is known, but the first person to do it is going to get dog piled by the other houses. MAD
Given the basic premise from the very beginning, where the emperor wants to destroy house atreides, I doubt it. If the houses were going to honor their promises, they already should have
I actually just came across the line that explained this in the first book. apparently, after the fact, there’s no way to tell the difference between this and the use of an atomic, so using this strategy could get your family accused of illegally using atomics against another house.
Well in addition to the other answers, out of universe, the answer is power of plot. Simply nuking the shit out of everything wouldn’t really make for an interesting story.
Right? Magic is real in Dune, we don’t don’t need a hard sci fi reason for every missing technology frank Herbert didn’t think of in 1965.
For the fun of hard sci fi is theorizing the stupidly powerful shit. Playing with the in universe science.
In any case they wouldn’t even need to have parachutes, just fire the laser a moment before impact or build some kind of drone that had multiple lasers that fired simultaneously…. Big, big booms.
Nukes play a rather pivotal role in Herbert’s book though. He definitely thought of them.
I am talking about OP’s idea of using lasers instead Nukes, nukes are fine, they fit the theme of 60s/70s geopolitical allegories rather perfectly. Using hard sci fi logic on a space opera sounds like an exercise in insanity, but OP is free to drive themself mad however they like. It’s Lemmy, we’re all mad in one way or another.
Is Dune a space opera? It’s more sci-fi than something like star wars for sure
Very yes. Interstellar adventures starring a young man who leaves his ordinary life to pursue his magical destiny to bring down the empire- it’s not all that different from star wars either.
Simply nuking the shit out of everything wouldn’t really make for an interesting story.
It did for the Killing Star. Not nukes, but R-bombs which are probably the most insane WMD-s and unlike strangelet bombs actually feasible even at our current tech level. All you need is a light-sail and a big-ass solar-powered laser.
But, yeah, for dune:
- Drop an active shield generator on your enemy position
- Shoot it with a laser
- Hilarity ensues
I’m pretty sure the answer is that building a lasgun and a shield is more expensive than building a nuke.
Like, the reason they don’t use nukes in Dune isn’t because they don’t know how to make them, it’s because if you ever use them you’ll immediately unite the entire Landsraad against you. They have very strict rules against it. And creating a pseudo-nuke as you described still falls under the convention. So, sure, you can do it, but it’s wasteful and pointless. Only reason to do it is if a lasgun and a shield is all you’ve got handy, and you’re willing to become public enemy number one for the galaxy.
IIRC, this is actually done at some point in the books.
Also, afaik, the reaction isn’t consistent or predictable - its more of a risk thing, which doesn’t make for a great weapon.
It’s sort of like the nuclear weapons situation in our world. Everyone who has the weapon know they can use it, but they won’t, unless there’s somone crazy enough cough Muadib cough to do it, because it all but assures complete destruction of your house by the rest of the great houses. It’s an unspoken rule.
The Landsraad has a sort of Mutually Assured Destruction pact. Any house that uses atomic weapons against another house would be immediately destroyed by all other houses. Paul uses atomics to breach the Shield Wall technically against a feature of the planet, not house Harkonnen, so there’s still political subtlety there.
Lasgun-shield interaction is indistinguishable from atomic weapons.
So deployment of this kind of weapon will ensure your own annihilation.
From memory, the lasgun-shield explosion is unpredictable and proportional to the size of the shield. So, a personal shield could produce a relatively small explosion, a house shield would produce a cataclysmic explosion.
Also sometimes the explosion would be on the side of the laser, not the shield. So you could shoot one down from space and end up blowing your ship up and not having anything bad happen to the shield side on the planet
Or anywhere along the beam IIRC.
Yea I think so. Basically it’s just unreliable af. Now that I think of it, it seems that Dune 2 got rid of the part where they do that. I seem to recall Duncan or someone in the first book purposely doing this?
Yes, the energy of the explosion is a function of the total energy between the output of the laser and the shield, specifically the shield energy being pointed at the laser origin. That’s why they randomly hid some maximum powered, monodirectional shields facing up when they fled the attack. So that even the relatively weak personal shields would still have a large impact. In general use, the shield energy is being projected in all directions, so the amount facing the laser origin is very small. IIRC, an average powered lasgun hitting a personal shield creates an explosion that can range between roughly an HE hand grenade and an HE naval shell. They only went up like nukes because the Harkonen were using the lasguns at max energy, and the shields were tweaked abnormally. And as another comment says, the actual point of the explosion is at a random point along the beam.
Also remember - no computers and that all space access is through the spacing guild or whatever it’s called.
So control/timing is difficult and you would have to persuade (bribe) the spacing guild to support you. (Or have someone suicidal enough to do it manually. Could be set up manually with a timer I guess?
I don’t think you can assume that would be easier than building a nuke
Miles Tek does that in the later books, IIRC. strap a lasgun to a shield generator, instant pseudo nuclear bomb.
Edit: I guess the difference is that they are dropping the whole package, not just the lasgun.
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