Is the UN official saying that the pier is enabling the Israeli invasion of Rafah, as though it wouldn’t happen otherwise? Or is he saying that but for the pier, Israel will open more land crossing to aid?
And what is the corrective action? Should the pier be built somewhere else, or not at all? Are their any factors about where to locate the pier besides political? Like the depth of the water or existing infrastructure?
And if the problem with the aid is that it’s a meaningless PR gesture, then does PR medicine not heal? Dose PR food not nourish?
Please help me understand why delivering food and medicine to Gaza is bad.
How do you get the materials in to build a pier? That should answer your questions if they are in good faith.
The US military is building the floating pier with materials they get from the US taxpayer. If you’re trying to argue it’s a waste of tax dollars, its not.
I’m talking about the logistics of physically bringing in the building materials
They already have methods and resources to build temporary piers, as logistics is a crucial part of war fighting.
A ship with the resources and egineers needed to build a temporary was basically already waiting to go when this decision was made.
So the logistics is already a solved problem.
A crucial part of warfighting? They are building a port purportedly to feed the people that their closest ally is deliberately starving by denying aid that Israelis have engineered to be necessary for their subsistence.
Do you think the ships will not be docking in Israel and that nothing will be transported by land through crossings? The same crossing that Israel uses to move their armed forces, weaponry and supplies through on a daily basis. Somehow those crossings will be completely off limits for the same US military that helps Israel coordinate a lot of their military operations and logistics.
I don’t understand how you can fail to see the absurdity of this situation. It’s been 7 weeks since they announced their plans and so far no construction has begun and a ship has had to return to the US due to a fire. Even if they do get something built, there will still be the need to operate and deliver the aid from the pier to the interior of the enclave with… trucks.
Yes, building floating piers and bridges are basic Army functions and the US military has been doing it for hundreds of years since inception, literally back to the Revolutionary war.
Yes, the same roads the IDF uses will connect to the pier, and they will use trucks to distribute the supplies, obviously. How else would they do it? What other roads would they use?
Yes, it has been seven weeks of a plan they said would take at least eight weeks.
Man, you really should approach your news diet more rationally.
The same roads they can use to let in aid trucks without any of these theatrics. Should the UN officials also “approach their news diet more rationally”? Please realize that outside of your western bubble you are completely isolated in your viewpoints on the ongoing ethnic cleansing.
Do you think the ships will not be docking in Israel and that nothing will be transported by land through crossings?
Yes? The Plan is to build the dock on the Gaza strip, specifically to get around the problem of Israel having the crossings closed? And no US military personel are being allowed on land so they cant just dock in Israel and drive across because Israel wont let them. Its not a difficult concept.
I don’t understand how you can fail to see the absurdity of this situation.
Who says I dont? Just because I dont hold the exact same position as you, doesnt mean i hold a completely opposite view. If Israel refuses to let aid in, then the only options for the US are airdrops, build a pier or basically invade Israel.
Even if they do get something built, there will still be the need to operate and deliver the aid from the pier to the interior of the enclave with… trucks.
Yes? The problem is not the trucks themselves its getting them past the crossings. Assuming they have not all been bombed out Gaza will already have many trucks in it. and Gaza is 5km across and 40km long. distribution within gaza isnt the problem.
Sorry, but you’ve fallen for the propaganda if you actually think Israel has to allow the United States to do anything given the power dynamics. The reason this is performative is that everyone acknowledges (including ex Israeli high ranking military leadership) that this war cannot be fought without explicit US support at all times. If not for the offensive weapon supplies then for the defensive iron dome re-supply. They have held and continue to hold complete leverage over Israel and can end this tomorrow if the US administration so chose. You don’t have to have to the same viewpoint as I do but at the very least you have to acknowledge the power dynamics at play.
The US military has a massive global logistics operation and spends their time training for doing things like this. Of any organization on earth they probably have the greatest capacity for building a floating pier and ensuring aid flows through it. Why are you so hung up on the logistics of building material deliveries?
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“Branded”
Biden does not care at all for the people of Gaza, that’s very clear with the money/ weapons he sends to Israel.
Or you know, he does care but internal US politics as well as international geopolitics are actually more complicated than you think and Biden can’t just do whatever the fuck he wants just because he’s president.
At a certain point you have to wonder what the value of liberal democracy is if it can’t help but be compelled into materially supporting genocide.
A democracies value is that (in theory) the government needs to reflect what its people want.
And if large parts of the country support Israel. like basically all republicans and large swaths of democrats do, then the government will unfortunately reflect that.
And large parts of the “only democracy in the middle east” wants to do genocide. Quite explicitly.
No, he does not care at all. Biden said lots of times, he fully supports Israel. When someone says that while the particular state is committing genocide - the person truly does not care about the lives of the people who are being brutally murdered.
At some point the geopolitics and internal US politics needs to setback and you need to take a hard look and think about the more than 33 000 lives that have been taken away.
This is not about “doing anything he wants just because, he’s president”. Despite the fact Biden cannot do ‘everything he wants’ - he certainly has a great influence of what happens (he’s president after all). The US refused to agree to a ceasefire multiple times.
He could for example put pressure on not giving the money to Israel until ceasefire happens and pressure to not give any weapons and such if they (Israel) decide to continue.
Also this is just me probably nitpicking but why can’t you write without rude words?
You should take a hard look at the millions of lives that are preserved by an alliance that keeps Iran from invading Israel. You’re this sad over 33,000, Imagine 3 million, or 33 million! You’ll might shit yourself crying. Biden doesn’t get time to cry. He’s got to think of the 33 million right now.
No, he does not care at all. Biden said lots of times, he fully supports Israel.
Because that is what US doctrine has been since Israel’s inception. and Biden is not in a position to change that?
At some point the geopolitics and internal US politics needs to setback and you need to take a hard look and think about the more than 33 000 lives that have been taken away.
Thats, unfortunately, not how politics works, Biden cant just say “fuck everyone else, im going to do something” and honestly thats probably a good thing as it also reigns in people like Trump to an extent.
This is not about “doing anything he wants just because, he’s president”. Despite the fact Biden cannot do ‘everything he wants’ - he certainly has a great influence of what happens (he’s president after all). The US refused to agree to a ceasefire multiple times.
Yes he has a lot of influence, but he also doesnt even have a functional majority in either the house or the senate, and even if he did, there are outspoken zionists amongst the democratic party in both houses and the DNC, theres also zionists (including christian zionists) among the party’s biggest donors. Then theres the military industrial complex and the people who have large investments in those companies as well. All of those people have vested interests in supporting Israel and put a lot of pressure on Biden to support Israel. If Biden unilaterally went against Israel he wouldnt get very far going against all those people.
And even if he someone did manage to go against them, those donors and supporters would likely flip to Trump who has basically come out saying he supports wiping Gaza off the map. oh and not to mention the media, who has been doing their best to sell the pro-Israel narrative would absolutely cannibalise Biden. So, even if he could go against all of the zionist influences, he is basically looking at a trolley problem, does he stop aid to Israel (which wouldnt even stop the genocide due to Israels large stockpiles of weapons) and basically gift the election to Trump, which among the plethora of other problems that would cause, would make things in Gaza far far worse.
Oh and thats not even mentioning how important to the US economy and military doctrine their relationship with Israel is. They need good relations with Israel and to keep them armed so that they stay the dominant power in the middle east and willing to defend US capital and political interests in the region.
Israel hosts massive stocks of US weapons, the biggest outside of the US itself, as well as early warning radars, military bases and provides a port for the US 6th fleet.
When you add all of that up, can you see why Biden cant just start burning brides both internationally, within the US and even within his own party?
Because that is what US doctrine has been since Israel’s inception. and Biden is not in a position to change that?
Sure that might be the US doctrine but he can start the change, he has the influence to do so. From what I last read the support from US citizens has dropped significantly Approval has dropped from 50% to 36% since November
Thats, unfortunately, not how politics works, Biden cant just say “fuck everyone else, im going to do something” and honestly thats probably a good thing as it also reigns in people like Trump to an extent.
You currently pretend as if Biden has zero influence as a President. Biden can put a lot of pressure onto it and perhaps it might budge. I never mentioned at all that he would be going ‘’I’m going to do something!’’. That’s not possible of course, but he can use his Presidency to put pressure on the money and weapon aid to Israel.
Yes he has a lot of influence, but he also doesnt even have a functional majority in either the house or the senate, and even if he did, there are outspoken zionists amongst the democratic party in both houses and the DNC, theres also zionists (including christian zionists) among the party’s biggest donors. Then theres the military industrial complex and the people who have large investments in those companies as well. All of those people have vested interests in supporting Israel and put a lot of pressure on Biden to support Israel. If Biden unilaterally went against Israel he wouldnt get very far going against all those people.
True indeed; he will have many obstacles but if he truly cared about the lives that are getting murdered on a daily basis, he would. However, he could use his influence to put pressure on the situation but at the moment, he’s just going with the flow.
And this is just my opinion speaking but he, himself has an interest in Israel as well and therefore does not care about the Palestinians lives. I mean do we remember this? Joe Biden says if Israel didn’t exist, the US would have to invent one to protect US interests
And even if he someone did manage to go against them, those donors and supporters would likely flip to Trump who has basically come out saying he supports wiping Gaza off the map. oh and not to mention the media, who has been doing their best to sell the pro-Israel narrative would absolutely cannibalise Biden. So, even if he could go against all of the zionist influences, he is basically looking at a trolley problem, does he stop aid to Israel (which wouldnt even stop the genocide due to Israels large stockpiles of weapons) and basically gift the election to Trump, which among the plethora of other problems that would cause, would make things in Gaza far far worse.
This is speculation and perhaps you might be right. Can’t say much.
Oh and thats not even mentioning how important to the US economy and military doctrine their relationship with Israel is. They need good relations with Israel and to keep them armed so that they stay the dominant power in the middle east and willing to defend US capital and political interests in the region.
I know this, that’s why I referred to the one video of Biden. Therefore Biden does not really care about the Palestinian lives, everything to protect the US power in the middle east. Does not matter how many lives will get brutally taken away. As long as the US stays in power (right?). This is why it is such a double standard when US president is criticizing other countries about human rights when US presidents do not even care about human rights themselves and this is exactly why I keep repeating ‘’Biden does not care about the Palestinian lives’’
Israel hosts massive stocks of US weapons, the biggest outside of the US itself, as well as early warning radars, military bases and provides a port for the US 6th fleet.
And these stocks will one day cease to exist and without US providing more and more money and weapons, they will have certainly some problems (sooner or later).
When you add all of that up, can you see why Biden cant just start burning brides both internationally, within the US and even within his own party?
Yes and No. He can’t just ‘’burn bridges’’ immediately but he can do it slowly. At least take a hard stance on ‘’do not commit genocide’’ & ‘’do not do what Nazi Germany did to your people’’.
It’s odd though, you took my comment and changed it entirely but that’s okay though.
You currently pretend as if Biden has zero influence as a President. Biden can put a lot of pressure onto it and perhaps it might budge. I never mentioned at all that he would be going ‘’I’m going to do something!’’. That’s not possible of course, but he can use his Presidency to put pressure on the money and weapon aid to Israel.
Im not pretending he has no power im making he case that he doesnt have enough power to push this through.
True indeed; he will have many obstacles but if he truly cared about the lives that are getting murdered on a daily basis,
i think thats an unfair assessment. There are a lot of places where people are getting murdered on a daily basis and I dont think its right to sell Biden as a heartless monster because hes not fixing them. Like I know its very apples to oranges to make this comparison, but what are you personally doing to help the people of Gaza? What about Ukraine? What are you doing to help the famine in Yemen? What about the civil war in Myanmar? Are you a bad person who doesnt care about those peoples lives because there is more you could be doing to help them? (again I know there is a world of difference between what you can do and what the POTUS can do)
And this is just my opinion speaking but he, himself has an interest in Israel as well and therefore does not care about the Palestinians lives. I mean do we remember this? Joe Biden says if Israel didn’t exist, the US would have to invent one to protect US interests
I think this perfectly ties into what I was saying in my comment. Even if he is morally against this genocide (which I believe he is) the US cannot afford to lose Israel as an ally, as they need an Israel to protect US corporate and geopolitical interests in the region.
≥Therefore Biden does not really care about the Palestinian lives,
I think this thinking is a too black and white just because they are not his top priority does not mean he doesn’t care about them. I know that might sound kind of harsh but thats just how it works. Pretty much everyone, not just Biden, not just politicians but everyone operates with a concept of “acceptable losses”. Like me or you certainly own some products, wether theyre electronics or cheap clothes or what have you, that were made with slave labour or from generally mistreated workers, but we accept that because your first priority is to yourself. If your choices are buy sweatshop clothes or go without clothes, you will take the clothes and dismiss the sweatshop labour as an acceptable or unavoidable loss. So its the same for Biden, but the stakes are astronomically higher.
You seem like you have a good sense of morals, and I really respect that, so the idea of this probably seems as abhorrent to you as it does to me, but thats just kind of the reality we live in. I dont like using that as an argument, but when making the “realist” argument like im doing it becomes unavoidable.
Biden’s first priority as president is to the US. So he can only go so far with his action when it comes to Israel, and despite what you and many people are saying he is doing something he has been putting pressure on Netanyahu, but ultimately Israel knows how valuable they are to the US and so knows how far they can push it given Biden’s weak position. He has pushed aid funding for Gaza, started airdrops into the strip and building the harbour to get larger amounts of aid in, as well as negotiating for a cease fire and hostage releases.
Apologies forgot to comment, saw the message but was at university and forgot about it after that.
Im not pretending he has no power im making he case that he doesnt have enough power to push this through.
He does have the influence and the power but he just does not want it. Perhaps he does not have enough power to ‘’push it through’’ but he can start it and some will follow.
i think thats an unfair assessment. There are a lot of places where people are getting murdered on a daily basis and I dont think its right to sell Biden as a heartless monster because hes not fixing them. Like I know its very apples to oranges to make this comparison, but what are you personally doing to help the people of Gaza? What about Ukraine? What are you doing to help the famine in Yemen? What about the civil war in Myanmar? Are you a bad person who doesnt care about those peoples lives because there is more you could be doing to help them? (again I know there is a world of difference between what you can do and what the POTUS can do)
It is not about ‘’fixing’’ them. It is literally about him signing money and weapon aid to a state that purposefully commit genocide, made and rule through Apartheid regime and is proud to have avoided an Palestinian state (Prime Minister of Israel said this himself). He’s 100% behind Israel despite everything that’s been going on.
You are making this personal and that’s okay. However what am I doing for the Palestinian cause? Boycott products that I can boycott and slowly replace them with products that do not have deals with Israel. I do not understand why you are bringing other countries into a full discussion that’s merely about Israel-Palestine conflict.
Like you, yourself said. I do not have the capacity and power to help as much as the President(s) are able to. I cannot sign a bill to gives billions to the people in need. He can but he gives it to the occupier, the murder, the state that commits genocide. The state that does the exact same thing as Nazi-Germany did (ethnic cleansing, committing genocide, war crimes and mass graves).
Source of my claim about the Prime Minister’s word about an Palestinian state: Israel’s PM Netanyahu ‘proud’ of preventing establishment of a Palestinian state
The fact he’s pretending that the Palestinian state is an immense threat to humanity while his own state is the core threat to the Palestinian people and everyone who supports the Palestinian state. Israel is a fascist state, rules through Apartheid and hate. His entire state was created from everything he claims that the Palestinian state ‘‘would become’’.
I think this perfectly ties into what I was saying in my comment. Even if he is morally against this genocide (which I believe he is) the US cannot afford to lose Israel as an ally, as they need an Israel to protect US corporate and geopolitical interests in the region.
I do not understand your comment on my previous sentence there. Biden said himself ‘’if Israel didn’t exist, the US would have to invent one to protect US interests’’. He’s willing to create an own state that commits genocide, apartheid and humiliate the Palestinian people for his own interest. And you are trying to make me believe that he cares about the Palestinian lives?
I think this thinking is a too black and white just because they are not his top priority does not mean he doesn’t care about them. I know that might sound kind of harsh but thats just how it works. Pretty much everyone, not just Biden, not just politicians but everyone operates with a concept of “acceptable losses”. Like me or you certainly own some products, wether theyre electronics or cheap clothes or what have you, that were made with slave labour or from generally mistreated workers, but we accept that because your first priority is to yourself. If your choices are buy sweatshop clothes or go without clothes, you will take the clothes and dismiss the sweatshop labour as an acceptable or unavoidable loss. So its the same for Biden, but the stakes are astronomically higher.
No, this is not ‘’too black and white’’. Certainly they are not his top-priority, that should be his own country from which I think it is not either. He’s signing off so much money aid to state that commits genocide – while he could use that same money to help his own country. So in what you are currently saying about ‘’acceptable losses’’, it’s okay to let more than 34 000 Palestinian people being brutally murdered? Now change the countries, lets say it’s an Western country or even the US itself. Suddenly it is not acceptable anymore in Biden’s eyes.
Remember we are talking about peoples lives, humans. Not just numbers, 34 000 human beings.
Biden’s first priority as president is to the US. So he can only go so far with his action when it comes to Israel, and despite what you and many people are saying he is doing something he has been putting pressure on Netanyahu, but ultimately Israel knows how valuable they are to the US and so knows how far they can push it given Biden’s weak position. He has pushed aid funding for Gaza, started airdrops into the strip and building the harbour to get larger amounts of aid in, as well as negotiating for a cease fire and hostage releases.
Is it? I mean the majority of the US does not approve of this war, I gave a source for this particular claim in one of my other comments. Yet he still choses Israel above his own peoples opinions. The people of the US makes the country US right?
‘’Putting pressure’’ is such a big word. What Biden has done to Israel is like what a adult person does to a child that took a candy ‘’don’t do that honey!’’. Biden is actively aiding the genocide, apartheid regime and humiliation of the Palestinian people and he knows it.
Israels internal politics is also driving it to do genocide. Doesnt excuse Bibi from doing the genocide. Doesnt excuse Biden supporting the genocide.
