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- technology@lemmy.world
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That makes the OP eligible for Windows-refugee status tbh.
Let’s be honest, very few people who talk about how much they hate Microsoft will even consider alternatives
I used to help maintain a Linux distro, and there is a level of polish Windows has that I feel cannot be reached by the FOSS ecosystem due the resources dumped into hiring dedicated teams at MS. Microsoft has tons of money. I’m sad about the direction of windows, but it generally works pretty well for how it’s designed (which is in some cases awful).
there was a time where that may have been the case, but microsoft has been chipping away at any polish they had for years. sure there’s still some rough edges in linux, but it’s only getting better where windows continues to get worse
That’s my point, people may complain but nothing else competes.
I agree with your point, but I never would have thought of describing Windows as “polished”.
It’s a sliding scale
Sure. I could accept hearing “Windows is more polished than most Linux distro’s”. But to say blankly that Windows is polished is crazy talk. It’s jank as balls. Its got like 3 totally discrete and independent UI frameworks for the menus operating in parallel, and somehow none of them provide all the functionality you would need, have to mix and match them.
That’s just a single example. I could rant for hours.
A good amount of Linux distros don’t seem to want to get the basics down. Constant churn vs stable but way out of date is more how is describe the choice, while windows at it’s core is actually a pretty stable platform. I don’t have to, for example, get annoyed at Firefox middle mouse scroll not working because I forgot this distro still defaults to x11 even though it installs Wayland too blah blah blah.
Firefox middle mouse scroll works fine in X11. I use it all the time. But I guess that’s beside the point; I’m sure we could come up with a different example.
You right, that’s just a weird firefox setting
Was thinking of touch: https://superuser.com/questions/1151161/enable-touch-scrolling-in-firefox
I’m not allowed to do my full-time job from any other computer besides the windows one assigned to me.
Most people believe they will start seeing problems where there were none before. They need to invest time into research about their use-cases, which is a cost even before switching.
The typical user used Windows since before they became scared of change, so that’s what they’ll stick with.
The pain of using Windows still can and will be higher without the majority of people switching to anything.
The typical user used Windows since before they became scared of change, so that’s what they’ll stick with.
In some ways this was me, then win 11 came around and I really didn’t like it, and it was pretty unstable for me, so I was stuck between two options for change, neither being what I would call “comfortable” (I had to, win 10 was blue screening literally every other day) which was when I saw the steam deck announcement, (also the LTT Linux Challenge) and I haven’t given win 11 a serious try sense
I don’t want to point fingers/cast shade or anything. Hell, I myself resist change where I can.
It costs incredible amounts of energy and time to change, and that change might even be counter productive to some or most of the things you do.
Gratulations on starting Linux, I hope it does everything you need it to do. Even if you should end up using it only for a short amount of time, I hope the experience enriches you.
Yes, because I need Adobe to do my meh wage part-time job in developing country from my one and only working laptop and I don’t have the luxury of surplus money, time, and mental energy to do anything about it.
But I get your point. If I have the means, I will fix my broken Thinkpad and definitely install Linux there the first chance I get. Either that or Adobe finally release Linux version, which will probably be released after Half-Life 3.
I can’t wait to try Endeavor (so I can finally be an obnoxious person who say “I used Arch-based distro, btw”)
That’s my point exactly, Linux doesn’t come without sacrifice and few are willing to sacrifice anything for freedom
You can run adobe products on Linux with Wine.
Adobe products barely work correctly on Windows, I wouldn’t want to try to run them in an environment that was even less supported
Either that or Adobe finally release Linux version, which will probably be released after Half-Life 3.
Yeah, I’ve seen what Adobe’s support looks like. I remember the Linux version of Flash Player. The guy in charge of it whined on the official Adobe blog on the subject that he had to support “minority browsers” which at the time was everything but Internet Explorer on Windows.
Adobe, you mean photoshop? https://github.com/MisconceivedSec/photoshop-22-linux
Doesn’t apply to the author here, so I don’t understand why you brought it up?
It’s not a failure to consider the alternatives that slows adoption, it is the very real material problems with those alternatives.
It’s not fair that a multinational corporation gets to wield virtually limitless power to starve the alternatives of oxygen and create as much friction as possible in the process of switching, but it is a very real problem, and blaming the users won’t solve anything.
Can you provide a citation for your claims about the process of switching?
The comment I replied to didn’t source their claim that it’s the users’ fault, but I notice you didn’t ask them to source their claims.
Perhaps you could explain why your skepticism is so selective before I answer your question.
And perhaps you could be more specific about what claim you want “sourced”. That the switch to linux has a lot of friction? That it’s difficult? That Microsoft has deliberately cultivated that friction? That users aren’t simply failing to consider it? That blaming the users isn’t the solution?
What exactly do you want me to source?
I didn’t notice or care about their comment, it was meaningless bs. Yours is something for which it’s feasible to provide evidence, it’s a novel claim, and I saw nothing to back it up other than hostility.
That the switch to linux has a lot of friction? That it’s difficult?
Everyone mostly agrees on this, not interesting. Also you didn’t even directly claim this in your post, so obviously I wasn’t asking about this. You’re just seemingly using this hostile badgering approach to stifle the conversation.
That Microsoft has deliberately cultivated that friction?
This is the interesting claim. After all Linux deliberately shoots its legs off every few years, why does Microsoft need to help?
Honestly your original question was so vague and terse I almost didn’t reply, it just seemed so pointless. If you don’t want hostility, don’t come with an attitude like that. Do the work to make yourself understood the first time. And don’t just demand citations - you’re not my professor. Just ask questions like a normal fucking person. Ask for information.
Given you’re asking for evidence of Microsoft’s sabotaging of open source projects including Linux, I’m going to have to assume you’re coming from a place of actual curiosity and not bad faith. It’s actually one of the most famous examples of anticompetitive behaviour in history. Start there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
I have nothing critical on it, and I will make my 8.1 last as long as the disks and fans still spin!
I wonder how many years until all mainstream websites and web based apps like steam refuse to work because you’re os isn’t supported by the latest browser version.
deleted by creator
Linux never looked so hot.
It isn’t your computer, user license clearly states you’re renting the software. You always have been, it’s just now they can enforce that agreement more readily. Microsoft is making a lot of bad decisions at the moment, but the majority of consumers really don’t care - adverts and surveillance are what they grew up with.
You can switch to Linux, but as much as I love it (it’s my daily driver for work and for travel gaming, oh and the community is absolutely amazing), it’s not 1-1. You will have to jump through hoops sometimes to get things to run (but damn me there are amazing people out there who can and do help). Then again, you own it because it is free, and it will run most things with the right tweaks.
I can’t speak for MACs (too poor to use one, my devices tend to be upgradable or VERY long life), but I hear they’re a better experience in terms of less bloat/adverts. Again though, you are renting with Apple, and are largely trapped in their ecosystem, and they have a ‘reputation’ for lack of repairability…
It isn’t your computer, user license clearly states you’re renting the software
It IS your computer, it’s just not your software.
Whoa whoa whoa an operating system is not software depending who you ask lol. It’s the program that manages both your PC’s hardware and software resources. /s
It’s not that people ignore it, it’s just that they don’t really have an alternative. You can rent from Microsoft or Apple, or go the Linux way where you don’t have the proper UX an average user needs and is accustomed to with Windows or macOS.
I’ve been a macOS user for over a decade and I am never going back to Windows. That being said, Apple does have iCloud (their version of OneDrive) which is tightly integrated into the OS and they’re not shy about asking you to pay for more storage. They also want you to log in with an Apple ID when you first start your computer and I don’t know how easy it is to use a local account.
It’s not the same as Windows in terms of aggressive ads and upsells, but Apple aren’t innocent in wanting more of your money. If you want true freedom you have to pay with your time and energy and run Linux.
When I switched to Linux (year 2011), jumping through hoops reduced significantly, because:
running games on builtin Intel cards etc, that is, kinda second-class citizen hardware, was anyways PITA ;
it made my stuff run terribly faster ;
those hoops are not too different in complexity from installing mods for games under Windows ;
for trying to learn programming Linux is much less problematic (have ADHD, so didn’t learn much back then, but) ;
the main issue of uninstalling McAffee went away for free ;
I was at school, so didn’t have any problems with office suites’ incompatibilities and such ;
and also Linux in 2011 was in general easier, don’t believe RedHat fanboys and such, it was very nice before PulseAudio, systemd and widespread adoption of GTK3, say, to change colors you just needed a 20-line .gtkrc-2.0 and .Xresources, and your WM’s config file, it’s 20 minutes from fresh install to feel normal ;
the community was friendlier, somehow back then RTFM was considered acceptable, but people rarely used it, now everybody behaves as if RTFM was very bad, but also too many people use it, sometimes to avoid admitting that they are wrong and a certain thing is absent in TFM.
Using windows will do that.
That’s because you’re the victim of a crime: extortion
It’s so weird to me that Lemmy is full of anti-Windows, anti-Google posts but the comments are always “I’m thinking about switching.”
How about… just do it?
I don’t know what I’m trying to say but being 20 years into “Windows-free” a few years of “Google-free” it’s tiring. I know everyone isn’t me but it’s tough watching this from the other side.
It’s not easy committing to the change when you have no knowledge of the platform. The status quo is always easier until it no longer is.
Having seen how different Linux is from what it was 20 years ago, it’s way more approachable than it used to be. Most people could adjust pretty quickly, but with so much of the technical bits hidden from sight, the average PC user these days isn’t as tech savvy as they were many years ago, and making the switch can be intimidating.
Good point — I’m pretty far down the rabbit hole. I haven’t really wanted to mess with a non-UNIX/Linux based OS in ages.
Side note: what OS would that be besides DOS or Windows? Old-school Mac OS comes to mind (System 7) but I like playing with modern platforms more than older ones.
BeOS/Haiku?
Only computer I have Windows on is my laptop and that’s only because it’s fairly new and laptops are notorious for proprietary hardware that’s hard to get decent drivers for. My desktop has had Linux for a couple of years and everything else runs Linux.
If you’ve got an external USB drive bigger than the laptop’s, and are willing to take the time, you could back it up by making a disk image with Clonezilla so you’re sure you have a backout option if you run into too much trouble getting Linux working
Getting rid of Google would require switching phone for me as there isn’t a google free ROM for the Redmi K50 Pro.
GrapheneOS for the Google Pixel. I’m using a Google Pixel 4 which was like $120 and super easy to flash. I’m from the US, so I understand if things might be different where you are.
That would be a hilariously bad downgrade. I could probably afford to replace mine with a Google Pixel 6, but that would still be a significant downgrade (90Hz screen). After having two phones at 120Hz, I won’t go lower.
They have the Google Pixel 8 which has a 120Hz refresh rate, if you can afford it.
I am sure it’s great, but I don’t want to spend that much on a phone. Honestly I think I will just keep my current phone for a couple more years, then buy something.
Also I don’t really want to lose access to my banking apps.
The Pixel 9 will come out in October, and the Pixel 8 will get much cheaper. Also there will be many used Pixel 8’s that will get sold for relatively cheap. These things aren’t like iPhones, they lose their value on the used market very quickly.
I’ve never owned an iPhone, so that comparison isn’t needed.
25% reduction in refresh rate to only 4x the historical standard that most humans alive grew up with balanced against any semblance of privacy seems like an easy win…
It’s not just that though is it? It’s a slower SoC, less RAM, possibly less storage, lower screen resolution, and I would be spending money to get it after just upgrading my phone a few months ago. So a downgrade in every other category while paying for it. On top of that losing banking apps and breaking the warranty. In what world does that make sense?
It’s something I could consider when looking for a new phone, but not right now. The fact you have to buy a new phone just to get a different ROM is absurd. In the PC world you can just install any different OS you pretty much fancy, with relatively few hardware issues in the way (such as Nvidia).
I don’t know what you’re responding to, I’m responding to a comment about refresh rate.
I’m using Linux on servers and for self hosting, but Linux on a desktop is a sick joke.
Every day, a large number of people start using Linux for the first time. But the internet has a lot of people on it - so you can expect to see “I’m thinking about switching” posts for many years to come. Posts like that won’t slow down until Windows is in minority. (And that is unlikely to happen any time in the foreseeable future.)
Poor you
I can relate to the anxiety that comes with the thought of switching and finding out you’re missing something essential.
It wasn’t a big deal for me since I’ve used FOSS alternatives for almost everything even on Windows and was hardly gaming anymore when I made the switch (but somewhat ironically I started again on Linux). But that’s hardly the position most unhappy Windows users are in.
That’s a good point too.
I’m primarily a web developer so essentially my entire toolkit is already FOSS and it doesn’t make sense to even run half of it on Windows. Windows is usually the odd one out with weird hacks to make it play nice.
I use macOS a lot too and because it’s UNIX my Linux toolset is available and ported to the OS with (what I understand to be) minimal changes.
And I’ve never needed to deploy to some Windows Server either (the thought frightens me).
I gave Linux a try 2 or 3 times back when I was in school. It was a horrible user experience and games wouldn’t work back then.
Now that games on Linux are a thing, I would love to give it a try once more. But now I have a full-time office job and a family. When I’m off work, I just want to fire up the PC and have everything work, which it does with windows. I also have the Pro version of Windows 11 and don’t experience all of the ad horror that everyone here is talking about.
If I gain back the free time and mental capacity, I’ll give it a try.
It’s not like it’s difficult to switch these days. Try something like Bazzite or Nobara and gaming should work out of the box.
Keep in mind it’s still a drastic reduction in security by default.
What are you talking about? Windows isn’t very secure to begin with. Bazzite in particular is one of the more secure Linux desktop distros as it’s immutable and comes with SELinux enabled by default. It’s secure enough to actually cause me problems lol.
It’s a real challenge to get a fully encrypted system with secure boot (easier now but still hit or miss with Linux) and tpm.
What you’re describing is the user never security model which is as you said restrictive enough to be annoying, and more controlled than windows.
I don’t use or particularly believe in secure boot.
I have a fully encrypted root partition, with automatic unlocking using the TPM. Wasn’t even that hard to setup either. Bazzite makes it fairly easy to enroll a secure boot key if you really want that, as do some other distros. Nothing you are describing is that difficult.
A lot of systems use AppArmour instead of SELinux, as this is easier to work with while still providing enhanced security.
Bookmarking this comment, never heard of those distros!
You know it’s not the same person posting every time
Some people have moved passed thinking about it. Others have just started. Its a growing sentiment and more people are starting to feel it.
It never was yours
It started when they changed My Computer to This Computer.
Acceptance is the last stage of grief. You are ready to move on.
Thanks in party to the spirit in Lemmy (thanks guys and gals) and getting pissed off at the ever more enshittification, I really went full-on on taking back control, and I don’t mean just changing my home PC (mainly used for Gaming) from Windows to Linux, but also replacing the TV Box that’s bundled with my ISP subscription (and will be changing ISP when the current contract is over) with my own Mini-PC with Lubunto and Kodi (which is also my Torrenting host with an always-on VPN and my home’s NAS) replacing the original Samsung Android (which had been bloated due to updates to the point of filling up all memory) of my aging tablet, with LineageOS and even doing the same on my brand new Smartphone.
Granted, I’ve always had the spirit of avoiding “smarts” in stuff that doesn’t need it - like TVs - but now I went and as much as possible took back control on even the stuff that does need “smarts”.
So far I’m quite happy with it all: I’ve maintained (improved, even, such as my Tablet now having more available memory) my level of Tech access whilst cutting of the ways in which companies exploited my time and patience for advertising money - I definitely feel I’m better now than before: a lot of things became more convenient and less restricted than they were before.
Things are becoming really bad out there when it comes to treating customers as cattle to be milked and I reckon that the only future were Tech is actually a pleasure to use for users is for those people who take control back from the corps on all of their devices.
doing the same on my brand new Smartphone
Watch out, rooting a phone may have unexpected consequences, like losing LTE on Samsungs or losing access to banking apps.
I’d like to leave a warning for anyone working with Uber or Lyft as well, a friend of mine flashed his phone with a custom ROM and couldn’t work for a week until I managed to reflash the original ROM on it.
It took a while cause his phone was from a not so well known brand and it took a lot of hours on russian forums to find the stock ROM.
https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/uber
Gotta check before you flash and fuck up a livelihood…
Banks are a bunch of dicks anyway. I recently received a ToS that forced me to have all my OSs on their latest update, and never install anything that doesn’t come from official stores.
Next day all of my money was in another bank.
You don’t lose banking apps, banks lose you
Well, that phone is a Xiaomi, not a Samsung (who had already made my shit list some years ago thanks to all their bloat), and the new ROM is just a bloat free MIUI, so from the same maker as the phone.
And yeah, as somebody else mentioned, if the banking app stopped working it would be the bank losing me - it wouldn’t be the first time I changed banks because they pissed me off.
Retail banking as a service is a commodity - they’re pretty much all the same - so sticking or not with a bank should be something one does based on cost and convenience and a banking app that doesn’t work on my phone reduces convenience.
As it so happens my banking app works fine.
That said, your alert can be important for other people and points one more reason to avoid Samsung like the plague.
Xiaomi is such a hidden gem. I just got a new wifi6 router off AliExpress for like $50 and threw openwrt on it in like 5 minutes.
PERFECT!
I don’t understand why this meme [template] exists. Did they rocket this guy up there to shoot him? Why would be be in space if he couldn’t be trusted with the truth?
I think the original showed the earth being a flat disk and the first astronaut says “it’s really flat?” And the second one says “always has been”. But is about to shoot him to keep the knowledge of it safe from the masses.
But in this case, the one with the gun is Microsoft.
Yes and why the fuck would someone like that be flown into space
It’s a meme.
I’m not sure why you were downvoted but you’re right about the origin. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wait-its-all-ohio-always-has-been
It is? I remembered the original as the continent being a giant Idaho and the first astronaut asks “it’s all Idaho?”
Here’s what I found about it. https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-wait-its-all-ohio-the-always-has-been-meme-explained
The “1000 and 1 Microsoft sucker lament” genre again.
One would think in a “technology” community people would be sharing mostly articles about some cool-working things, and news would be something supplementary.
I know that I haven’t submitted a single post here, but just WTF.
Maybe if Microsoft(/Facebook/Elon) stopped doing actively fucking evil shit every opportunity they got it wouldn’t dominate the discussion?
Dude…I’ve been here since may, and submitted about a dozen posts. Not tech related, but, still. Lemmy gotta grow and get interaction!
Go make a post in your favorite sub right now.
LIBREBOOT! LIBREBOOT! LIBREBOOT!
