Have you ever been behind a car with a driver that has one foot on the brakes and the other on the gas. It seems to resemble the effect you are looking for and incredibly distracting and annoying. When brake lights go on you expect them to be making a stop or rapid deceleration so you do the same as well as the people behind you and all of the sudden you are speeding up, slowing down, back and forth. It’s becomes a terrible way to drive. The reason we have 2 eyes is to be able to judge these things and it works fine if you aren’t driving distracted.
What if you don’t have 2 eyes?
3 eyes works just as well.
A related tangent is now that there are so many distracted drivers, engine braking in a standard can become hazardous. I often will tap my foot on the brake so the people behind will register that my speed is decreasing.
I beleive that should be common practice when down shifting to slow because it’s not much different from braking without any brake lights. However, I’ve come to also trigger the lights even when coasting down in top gear. The slightly harder engine braking in a manual, even in top gear, combined with the increase of distractions, has me concerned about the same thing as you.
I heal-toe, so I’m pressing the brake as I’m engine braking. But I think I’ve read somewhere that newer manuals actually will turn on the brake light on heavy deceleration via engine brakes, I just don’t know firsthand because every very I’ve owned has been old as shit. Ditto with electric cars that have aggressive regen braking.
Because deceleration is not braking and conflating the two is extremely dangerous.
Think for more than 2 seconds plz
I am honestly flabbergasted that people think this is a good idea. This would basically mean that the brake light would stay on almost all the time that you weren’t actively accelerating.
There would be so many more highway accidents. I heavily rely on the brake lights of the cars in front of me to drive defensively. They tell me when I should expect to put my brake on.
If brake lights turn on just because some took their foot off the gas, I can’t tell the difference between a gradual slowdown and an intent to stop, so it would make it way more likely that I wouldn’t brake in time to avoid a collision in a sudden stop of traffic.
Brake lights should only ever indicate that a driver has their foot on the brake. I absolutely must have this information delivered to me reliably. If the meaning of brake lights changed as recommended here, I would be legitimately scared of highway driving.
This would basically mean that the brake light would stay on almost all the time that you weren’t actively accelerating.
As I understand the idea of “single pedal operation”, taking your foot off the accelerator pedal initiates regenerative braking. If your foot is not on the accelerator, you are braking, and the brake lights should be illuminated. But the brake lights are normally controlled by the brake pedal. You are braking without touching that brake pedal; the lights will not come on.
OP is trying to solve that.
I suppose the main bulk of people misinterpreting op is due to how most people don’t think of EVs as the default and as someone who lives in a part of the US where EVs are pretty rare I assumed Regen braking was activated by pressing the brakes but hey I guess that goes to show my lack of ev experience and motivation to think about how driving one works due to how rarely I come across them and have the opportunity to even consider buying one
The issue is with regenerative braking and single pedal operation of EVs. Many vehicles today will essentially brake if you aren’t on the accelerator.
Personally, I think it’s a gap in design/regulation. But not as simple as brake pedals.
Because the brake light indicates braking, and is connected to the brake? This is already a perfect solution.
An accelerometer is a terrible idea to replace this. You would have to cover the car with sensors and tune them so that accelerating uphill doesn’t trigger the brake light, and that braking downhill will successfully trigger the brake light.
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Because there are laws that specify when the brake light has to come on, and it isn’t when the car shows down (slightly). You could be starting to go up hill, or a list of other reasons. The point of brake lights isn’t too signify the car slowing, but that the driver intends to slow down. Which is also why it doesn’t come on if you’re motor breaking" (is that the right term?).
This obviously varies wildly depending on where you are in the world. I’m also sure there are some places where it would be allowed.
Which is also why it doesn’t come on if you’re motor breaking" (is that the right term?)
I believe the term you technically want is engine braking
Oh yes, that sounds right. Thanks!
Because there are laws that specify when the brake light has to come on, and it isn’t when the car shows down (slightly).
To be clear, the laws say when it must illuminate. They do not (in the US) prevent illuminating it for other reasons in any way. The law says the light must illuminate/burn if you are actively pressing the gas pedal, but does not prevent it from also illuminating if a certain amount of regenerative braking is applied or a deceleration is detected. Theoretically an automaker could get away with making the brake lights simply always illuminate (and that loophole would be fixed in days, so no one does it).
That is indeed US-specific. I’m in the EU, and here it’s defined by when and how it’s switched. Specifically, it is required to be tied to the brake pedal (i.e. then intention to brake) and/or the hand brake being pulled. It is not allowed to illuminate otherwise. But the exact specifics probably also vary by country here. That’s why I emphasized that part.
EDIT: There are actually deceleration values in some laws, possibly tied to regulation of EVs and the regenerative braking. Since that isn’t necessarily tied to the brake pedal when silmulating engine braking, but can be adjusted in strength at will (it isn’t tied to the mechanics of the drag of an idling engine as it would with an ICE). A quick google told me that the lights are allowed to come on at 0.7 m/s² and are required to come on at 1.3 m/s². This obviously implies that they are NOT allowed to come on below 0.7 m/s². This still applies only to (pure) EVs, as far as I can tell (not hybrids, and not ICE powered cars).
Yep, EU as usual having reasonable and well-thought out laws, give the US about 5 more years and they’ll make it law here too.
That’s a fairly complicated system to replace what is just an ultra simple switch at the pedal. The latter is even pretty likely to last the life of the car.
They sell something like this for motorcycles because engine braking is so common. If I recall it is like a 3-4 wire install and ~$100.
The problem is with electric cars that can be driven with one pedal most of the time
I was thinking about this last time I drove an ev (ioniq 5). It will really decelerate quite hard when you lift off, and it’s configurable by the driver.
I don’t think they need to do it with an accelerometer, but if the regeneration system is applying more braking force than it would take to turn on the light with the brake pedal, it should turn the light on.
Either that or they should require the brake pedal to be used beyond that point.
Edit: actually it just occurred to me that it might be no worse than downshifting in a normal car. Maybe it’s not a big deal.
Most EVs do put on the brake lights when you lift off the pedal and the regen system kicks in.
The i5 does turn on the brake lights when you use regen modes. They did have a firmware update to make the logic a bit better earlier this year though.
An accelerometer isn’t a good idea; but if the car’s systems are responding to a command from the driver to slow down, be that a press of the brake pedal, lifting off the accelerator in a car designed for 1-foot driving, etc. it should illuminate the stop lamps.
Declaration can happen through a variety of means. Simply not accelerating would be the first one, due to friction. But even steadily accelerating on an upward slope would decrease the vehicle’s speed, and you don’t want to give vehicles behind the idea that a stop is being initiated.
There is a Technology Connections video about this xD:
Between XKCD and Alec, the whole of human knowledge’s pretty much covered.
I’ve driven rentals that put the brake lights on if you did not have a foot on the gas, and only lit a 3rd brake light when actually pressing the brake. Dunno why it isn’t more common tho.
Because a think called a “brake light” should light go only to indicate braking?
Reminds me of the cars that now have the reverse lights on when they’re just in park making me think they’re going to back up but never do.
That’s stupid feature on American cars only and they’ve been doing it forever.
Standardised is a funny word, a car manufacturer doesn’t standardise. Laws and 3rd parties like ANCAP do.
When they need to do it to sell it with certain safety requirements, they will.
However, even if those happen, and car makers today start building them with that, it’ll take a decade or longer before you’ll start seeing them in majority on the road. So even if you lobby for it, expect time since I’d say less than half of all people buy new cars, so it’s not until the second hand market sees it will it be commonplace.
Right now the second hand market is starting to see things like collision avoidance systems and they will often flash brake lights when emergency braking on behalf of the driver.
Some semi tractors have implemented brake lights that activate under exhaust braking, and its fucking annoying.
It’s worth asking who makes money off of them not doing so. Any ideas? Like, maybe all their related repair shops, parts manufacturers, dealerships for when the damage was too much? That’s all lost revenue if they make things safer. & if the NTSB doesn’t make them do it, they won’t
Not a car, but I’ve got a bicycle light that does this. Turns on when it’s dark and also when you brake. So definitely possible
Can you share a link to that? I’m looking for a new light.
I always wanted a similar system to what you see in racing video games, when they display input controls. A red and green bar on the rear of the vehicle which shows accelerator pedal position, and a red bar which, in real life would have to show deceleration, as a percentage of theoretical maximum, rather than pedal position, as in the games.
