followed with ‘I wasn’t aware is so important to you. I didn’t want to insult you and if you felt so, I apologize. The word fuck is one I use very often, but I’ll try to control myself around you’

Note I didn’t insult the coworker (no fuck you or fuck off), but simply said ‘fuck’ out loud due to a job error.

  • jet@hackertalks.com
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    2 months ago

    Don’t add the while your around bit.

    I’m going to work on improving my language, and I’ll be mindful going forward, it’s a very deep habit, so please bear with me.

    • Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      A lot of the response here has been around the way the ‘apology’ focusses too much on the person who’s supposed to be receiving the apology and not the person who has something to apologise for. The intended draft follows along the classic lines of “sorry if you feel that way” which implies that the person being apologized to is really the one in the wrong for having taken offence and the apologizer is just indignant at being forced to say anything rather than actually sorry for anything.

      I get all that, but… Is there no way to sincerely express being sorry for not considering or anticipating another person’s individual response to something as opposed to the thing itself? Without seemingly blaming them for that response? It’s still about the apologiser’s actions in having been inconsiderate in their deployment of language then, just not for the actual language. I ask because your proposed change “I’m going to work on improving my language” implies that the error was in using the word fuck at all and that their language is in general faulty in some way. I don’t think that’s the case. Having a manner of speech that includes that word is not something inherently bad, the bad behaviour necessitating an apology as I see it is for being too presumptive in assuming this particular person would have no problem with it when it’s known that some people might and also for not immediately taking that person’s offence seriously in the immediate aftermath when they expressed having taken offence (they didn’t take it seriously, this is a follow up post).

      It seems reasonable, if expressed very carefully, to commit to avoiding the word around them, since that’s all that person can reasonably want, that’s the problematic behaviour that is getting in the way of their working together. Committing to improving their language can really only mean committing to not saying that word generally which is defacto suggesting the word itself, not the lack of consideration is the problem and also puts OP in a position now of being on the hook in future not just for using the word around this individual but in all other circumstances as well something they shouldn’t promise. If the work environment is such that nobody else speaks like this and they’re the only one then sure, it should have been common sense to begin with and such a commitment is a no brainer, but if it’s otherwise common practice and it’s just this one person they need to accommodate then that’s what should be done, accommodating this one specific person in order not to offend in future and apologising in order to let them know that you hear them and consider their feelings important.

      • jet@hackertalks.com
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        2 months ago

        It’s pretty straightforward. If the apology is expressed around how the other person perceives things. It’s not a real apology.

        I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m sorry you think that. I’m sorry you took that misunderstanding from me.

        In fact, in these situations, it may be better not to apologize at all. I realize some of the language I use isn’t great, I’m working on it, please understand I’m not going to be perfect at it.

  • horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I work in a very large tech company. I curse like a fucking sailor around some people and use my church voice around others. Expletives lose their punch when used too often.

    I wouldn’t apologize or bring it up further. The time for an apology about language spoken in the heat of the moment is as soon after as possible.

    The best apology is a change in behavior.

    Good luck navigating this, you can see how contentious a topic it is by the comments in this thread. But it boils down to know your audience, and believe people when they tell you they have a problem.

    • lobut@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      I remember working in the London UK office and we curse non-stop over there it’s great. Whenever our colleagues from SF would visit they would always be surprised how much we swear. I’d see them do the turnaround like, ‘what just happened?’.

  • I'm back on my BS 🤪@lemmy.autism.place
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    2 months ago

    I would censor the work f–k because it might come off like you’re being passive aggressive and aren’t really trying. Reminds of the time the actor that played Burke on Grey’s Anatomy called the actor that played George a fa—t, then made a public apology saying he’s sorry he called him a fa—t and that he wont say fa—t again, except he said the word. People got even more pissed, and I think he was fired from the show. 🤦

    I previously made a comment on how I’ve learned to apologize if you’re interested.

  • HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com
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    2 months ago

    is it an office. if so the apology should be more about your behavior in a professional setting not just around one person. If its blue collar it might apply if members of the public are around.

    • ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net
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      2 months ago

      This is a solid point.

      In a polite environment like an office, if one person was offended enough to call it out, there’s a huge chance others feel the same way.

      I mean there will always be Karen’s who flip out that you’re just eating chips loudly.

      But It’s up to the company culture to decide how to approach it as a whole, rather than address it with a single person.

      • HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com
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        2 months ago

        Somewhat. the office environment is the employers and generally follows a civil discourse type of rule. Again in blue collar if your on a site and everyone there is just a worker then usually swearing is commonplace but if your doing a job at a home and the homeowners are around its generally frowned upon. Public businesses usually do not allow it but will let it slip if its not confrontational or often. So basically the apology is more about the owner of the space I would say and whats appropriate.

  • Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    I wouldn’t wory too much about that coworker, if they can’t handle something as banal as fuck, it’s their problem, not yours

  • EatATaco@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    This is a terrible apology. You make it all about then instead of your actions and then don’t even say you won’t do it, but only that you’ll try to do it…and then immediately dropping the f bomb throwing out the window any chance that you’re “trying” means anything.

  • jbrains@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    “I’ll try not to swear around you. I’m sorry. I will probably not be perfect, but I assure you I’m trying.”

    That’s enough.

    I assume you are genuinely sorry and have decided you want to behave differently around them.

  • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    “I’ll try and be more professional in the future.”

    This way you’re not judging them or yourself, you’re saying you understand that there’s a code of behavior the bosses expect everyone to follow.

  • Elaine@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    I worked with someone like that who got their jimmies tussled by cursing. I said sorry in the moment they voiced their feelings and avoided them after that. I didn’t change how I talk or come up with a huge apology.

  • JakenVeina@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    A quality apology consists of 3 things:

    • An explanation of what you did that was wrong, and why it was wrong
    • An explanation of what you’re going to try and change about yourself, to avoid the same mistake
    • An expression of remose. I.E. the word “sorry” or “apologize”.

    Your proposed apology has all those elements, so you’re already ahead of most folks. But there are a few suggestions for improvement in this thread that I think are also good.

    “if you felt so, I apologize”: I don’t read this as you apologizing for how the other person feels, since you clarified that earlier. But I think it’s fair that others might read it that way, so you’re better off eliminating the ambiguity. You’re apologizing for what you did, without considering that others might (validly) consider it inappropriate.

    “I’ll try to control myself around you”: similar deal, it should be clear that this is about you, not them. And when it comes to swearing in a workplace, it’s pretty-darn common to consider it inappropriate and unprofessional, no matter who you’re around. Maybe part of your apology needs to focus on how the behavior is unprofessional, and you simply needed help recognizing that, as you’re (possibly?) new to the professional working world.

  • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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    2 months ago

    Ugh, so one thing that’s annoying about apologies is that if you use the word “if” people usually think it’s a bad apology regardless of everything else you say. Try to say things like “I’m sorry that it upset you” instead of “I’m sorry if I’ve upset you.”