I have been thinking a lot since the election about what could explain the incredibly high numbers of Americans who seem incapable of critical thinking, or really any kind of high level rational thought or analysis.
Then I stumbled on this post https://old.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/16ires5/lead_exposure_from_shooting_is_a_much_more/
Which essentially explains that “Shooting lead bullets at firing ranges results in elevated BLLs at concentrations that are associated with a variety of adverse health outcome"
I looked at the pubmed abstract in that Reddit post and also this one https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5289032/
Which states, among other things, “Workers exposed to lead often show impaired performance on neurobehavioral test involving attention, processing, speed, visuospatial abilities, working memory and motor function. It has also been suggested that lead can adversely affect general intellectual performance.”
Now, given that there are well in excess of 300 million guns in the United States, is it possible lead exposure at least partially explains how brain dead many Americans seem to be?
This is a genuine question not a troll and id love to read some evidence to the contrary if any is available
I doubt that there are enough people shooting enough guns often enough for it to be more than just trace exposures, it likely must be something else.
My aunt spent a long time working in education in the USA, much of it in leadership roles. When she incorporated lessons on critical thinking into the curriculum, it resulted in a lot of pushback from parents who did not appreciate their kids applying the lessons at home.
People who actively resist the use of critical thinking will seem cognitively impaired because they are, in fact intentionally impairing their cognition. My intuition here is to blame religious fundamentalism, but that’s not a well-researched position.
Fundamentalism is certainly a contributing factor, but there are others. Conservatives have been working to cut back on education since the early 80’s. Removing critical thinking training was one of the objectives… Conservative policies are unpopular and are often supported with misrepresentations and outright lies. To succeed, they need a public without the knowledge or skills to realize their arguments are invalid. Unfortunately, they have gone a long way toward accomplishing that.
Yeah man. When that kid starts asking questions and challenging the family norms, that’s the teacher’s fault for making their life harder. It isn’t a sign that the parent needs to adapt.
Adapting IS a pain in the ass. Some parents don’t have the faculties to do it. Some do, but don’t after getting done with work. It is truely a generational trauma that the parent has to head off in themselves for it to carry to early aged kids.
100%
“We are already providing all the answers you will ever need.” -religion
Organized religion is, fundamentally — at its very core — based on rejecting critical thought; to “just have faith” in the unknown/unknowable.
It is in no way surprising that it’s incompatible with advanced science/evidence-based civilization.
There is an episode of Mind Field on youtube, it’s their halloween episode that explored the source of fear in humans. It had a campy feel to it but also contained a lot of good information.
The conclusion made in the video is that there are very few “universal fears”, things that cause fear in every human test subject regardless of race, culture, age, etc.
They were able to find one though: humans universally do not like the feeling of suffocation, specifically we are pretty sensitive to the ratio of oxygen and CO2 we are inhaling.
The brain interprets an increase in the CO2 concentration in the blood as “suffocation” and activates the fear response to try to protect us.
What have been dumping absolute metric fuck loads into the atmosphere in the past centuries? Countless amounts of CO2. And the concentration is only going up and up and up.
All of us are experiencing elevated amounts of CO2 in the blood, and all of us are universally feeling some level of the fear response because of it. Might explain what seems to be a lot of really bad decision making across all of society, people are scared, don’t know where it’s coming from, and are seeking anyone and anything that can help fix it immediately, whether or not it’s actually helping.
Fear is the mind killer.
I really can’t imagine CO2 concentrations in the air is “suffocating” us. Air is mostly nitrogen, then oxygen, CO2 is a tiny sliver (which yes traps heat, different problem.)
Post reads like some violently uninformed person making a lot of… I don’t want to say racist cuz that’s not really right, but similar sentiments about Americans
Y’all are stupid cuz of your guns
Is about as stupid a thought as possible as you’re you’re claiming we are because of shooting guns and the fact that anyone in the comments is taking it seriously shows y’all have the exact same level of critical thinking skills as those you’re insulting
Was the majority of the German voting public lead-poisoned in the 30s? I don’t think lead was even put in gas then. Those Germans almost certainly were not lead poisoned, and they put a monster into power.
I get wanting a good explanation, but in reality, it’s a simple but unsatisfying explanation. It applies to every country and every population in every era. People are fuckin’ stupid. Carlin said it best:
“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
I dislike this saying because it’s always been assumed, never proven, that intelligence follows a normal distribution. That is if it can even be mapped to a single, consistent, comparable number.
But your point is valid. Though I’d add that it’s not universally true. Fascists thrive on fear and ignorance. Give people access to a good education, which includes political education, and they are far more resilient to these tactics.
Which is why it’s especially nefarious that conservatives love to undermine, vilify, and defund education.
I dislike this saying because it’s always been assumed, never proven, that intelligence follows a normal distribution.
Okay, think of the median instead lol
Some of us were around when leaded gasoline was the norm, and every municipality had a crime rate drop that corellates to their unleaded gas mandate.
Then there’s lead in candy which was a problem until the FDA shut that down.
There still is lead in fuel, and so kids who play in urban playgrounds are supposed to wash their hands before eating anything.
So if our people have detectable elevated lead levels (it has a plenty-long bio half life), I’d question automotive exhaust and industry before worrying about guns at the range. Unless someone is squeezing off a hundred rounds a day.
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haven’t shot a gun in at least 20 years and I’m retarded as shit. so…
The damage has been done, probably 😂
I built a machine that pics up discharged round from the end of the shooting range. They had to wear so much protective gear to run this machine and were under strict regulations from the government. I had no idea how dangerous shooting ranges were.
The state of Florida has more lead service pipes (water) than any other state in the US. I’ve been saying for years that this could be an actual source or at least partial cause of the phenomenon known as “Floridaman”.
After having been here in Miami for several years I can 1st hand confirm that most of the people here are not intelligent.
Throw in our appalling educational systems and what capacity for rational independent critical thinking was never developed.
We have been told by TV, advertising, media in general, that people are smart, you’re smart, you’re a smart person there Joe and Jane America. But they aren’t. Most can’t distinguish the difference between thinking and feeling, therefore they conflate the two.
It’s not a good look I’ll grant you that. Hey we might be stupid, but at least we’re violent.
The average ACT score in Florida among college-bound seniors is about 18. To be clear, that is only slightly higher than my cat can score by guessing. It’s an astonishing result. They are actually illiterate. And again, that’s the average for the state (nationally it’s around 22), and half of them do worse.
If you’ve ever tried to have a conversation with an average person… well, you can’t. There’s nothing to discuss except sports, since everything else is way too complicated. So now imagine a standard deviation lower.
Sit at any self-checkout in any grocer you like here in SF, and just watch for 10-15 minutes. That’s it, just watch. You WILL be amazed/appalled at just how small the intellects are.
If you’ve ever tried to have a conversation with an average person… well, you can’t.
I grew up in Virginia Beach/Hampton roads, and moved to Tennessee in 09 at 18. I’ve never really wanted to admit that outloud, to be honest, but I feel like the only normal person in this state sometimes. I’ve been here for over 15 years and I have met a grand total of 7 people I could have a decent conversation with, one of which is an Episcopal priest from another state, and 2 I met specifically through left wing organizing, so a group with membership that’s already higher than likely to be biased to education and intelligence. I knew people back home that were smart. I don’t mean educated, or some High Potential/Sheldon Cooper shit, I mean they were rational, intelligent human beings capable of common sense and able to hold a conversation. And remember, I was a teenager when I left. At 17 my peers in Hampton Roads were more capable at humaning than are my peers here at 33.
That makes me deeply sad, and I feel like such an elitist shit saying it out loud.
The first time I traveled to America, my first thought after a day meeting southerners was “man, these people are dumb as rocks”. It was a major tourist destination so I met many Americans of normal intelligence from elsewhere, and the southerners were friendly, but man… the things they chose to talk about, and questions they chose to ask, really solidified how dangerous promoting religion over education is. A democracy can only survive when the average is informed, and conservatisms overall anti-intellectualism — its multi-decade attacks on education — is the #2 predictive variable destroying western democracies (the #1 being religion itself).
Let’s just say I’ve been expecting fascist dictatorship for America for over 2 decades, so Trump/MAGA was expected… Though, even with that expectation, I didn’t expect it to be this fucking stupid.
I find this comment super compelling, especially in combination with some of the other good points in the comments here. thank you
To be clear, the “Floridaman” thing certainly benefits from the “sunshine state” bullshit, but yeah, the rest of your points are sound. 🤌🏽
I think far more people are exposed to lead in water than from guns. Even gun-owning Americans don’t go to the range that often.
That’s a good point, especially the fact the most people who own guns don’t shoot them that often, but re: lead in the water, hasn’t the issue of lead in water become less significant over time?
This post by New York City government states that actually construction work is the most common source of lead exposure for people in the city, followed by sketchy consumer products. https://a816-dohbesp.nyc.gov/IndicatorPublic/data-stories/adult-lead/#%3A~%3Atext=This+continued+drop+in+blood%2Cair%2C+paint+and+consumer+products.
Maybe just generally we’re not taking the adverse cognitive effects of lead exposure, whatever the source, seriously enough?
Edit: someone else in the comments made the connection between the high numbers of lead water pipes in Florida and the “Florida man” phenomenon. Maybe lead in the water is still way more significant of an issue than I thought
Also bear in mind that leaded gas was the norm til the mid 90s, so a lot of boomers and Gen X were exposed
Holy shit. I gues lemmy is a pretty young place for you to say something so completely wrong and get so many upvotes for it. Most cars have been “unleaded gasoline only” since the mid to late 70"s.
Think about it. Do you think those cars from the 1990’s still on the road today have all had engine and fuel pump swaps on them to run unleaded? Heck no. Most all the cars you’re going to find from the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s all still say “unleaded fuel only” by the gas gauge. Most gas stations in the 1980’s didn’t even offer leaded gasoline.
was the norm
In the US, it was only banned from being sold in 1996, but it wasn’t the norm for long before that. The last model year that leaded gas was allowed for cars was 1974. Yes, all Boomers and most of Gen X would have had high exposure, but it would have been fading out by the time younger Gen Xers were born.
And yes there are some non-car applications of it that are still legal to this day, but the overall frequency of it would have dropped a ton well before the mid-90s. (Source, and actual graphs of the decline over time)
I think they are trying to phase out 100LL right now
They’re trying again. AvGas has always been more of a challenge, more resistant to change, but also a niche market segment. They were also trying twenty years ago when I did some flying, but progress has been glacial. Personally I always hoped we’d get new engines that could run on jet fuel, so avgas could just go away ( one of the things holding back general aviation is cost, and jet fuel is much cheaper). We should probably treat land near airports as contaminated, but there really aren’t many airports and the number continues to shrink
“you’re brain dead, you’ve got aalmost as much lead as a motherfuckin bullet in ya head.”
I doubt it’s the main cause, widespread cultural phenomena are normally mostly generated by social interactions (words) and reinforcement, and demagogues (or so they often over-claim).
Poison like that will impact a fairly small proportion and takes a long time to impact and spread. Seems unlikey to be anything major. Besides which many more sources of lead poisoning from paint and leaded petrol, and water pipes and stuff - not specifiic to US and not specific to guns.
Religion is the cause. You are not allowed to think outside the cult. There are a lot of idiot Americans who don’t own guns or are exposed to them, so the lead theory is not valid in that sense.
Look at this guy, he doesn’t know gun ownership is a cult. Praise firearm Jesus.
There is a venn diagram where Idiot is the center. Not everyone who is a xian owns a gun, not all gun owners are xians, and yes, there are xians who worship the NRA. National Russia Association
nOt EvErYOnE WhO iS rEiLiGiOuS iS a cUlTIsT.
The dumbest and most religious ones usually own the most weapons though, so it’s a persistent state of mutual amplification.
I’ve been thinking long covid might also be a factor for it getting worse over the last few years.
This is a fascinating angle, I just looked at a couple of pubmed articles as a result of your comment and this one stuck out right away
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38829253/
“Long-COVID is characterized by persistent symptoms following COVID-19 infection, with cognitive impairment being a prominent feature. Symptoms include brain fog, difficulties with concentration, memory issues, and executive function deficits.”
At the end of the day hardly anything has just one cause, and you may be correct that long COVID has had a big impact on the critical thinking problem in America.
Great comment, receiving contributions like this is why I posted the question in the first place, thank you
You’d have to shoot thousands of rounds in an unventilated room to get even close to one day of leaded gasoline exposure
