Summary
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned Europe that it cannot withstand Russia without Ukraine’s military, calling Ukraine’s victory vital to stopping Kremlin expansion.
Speaking to Polish media, Zelenskyy stressed that Russia’s larger, more brutal army would target other European nations if Ukraine falls.
He criticized Western allies for underestimating Russian President Vladimir Putin’s ambitions, urging them to strengthen Ukraine’s defenses.
I think we should help Ukraine, but Russia would get their clock cleaned by European NATO (even without US).
Regardless, I’d rather we not test that theory. It doesn’t matter which side wins, we all would lose.
As long as the nuke is dropped on my head, I don’t care.
I could use a break from all this winning tho
How many NATO soldiers have experience fighting a full-scale war on their territory against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
TIL training doesn’t exist.
against an enemy with similar technological and production capabilities?
We’re talking about Russia here.
and Europe would take catastrophic casualties in doing so.
America is an ocean away, and doesn’t have to worry about war on their soil.Europe on the other hand, can you honestly say that society is ready for events like Bucha on their soil? a Russian brigade breaks through the line, gets bogged down,isnt able to advance any further, so decides to loot , rape and mass murder the population before retreating?
Bucha and Mariupol is why the entire NATO strategy changed. it used to be that the baltics would effectively be surrendered temporarily while the European backbone mobilized, France Germany Poland etc. But thats no longer an option because intelligence knows that the Russian Soldiery, for lack of a better term, act like savage ghouls. and will put innocent men women and children to the sword for no reason other than spite.
and failing that, they will bomb a city to dust like they did to Mariupol, Bakhmut, and so many others
One thing Russia has infintely more experience than Europe, its people are used to the realities of war, Martial law, no rights, Resource scarcity, No protesting. they just behave like lemmings now. Its sad, but its an advantage.
European populations would be calling for an armistice and selling out countries on the periphery as soon as it started because they dont want to go to war.
Lmao you really fell for the Russian propaganda.
quite the opposite.
but I’ve been watching their actions for the last 10 years. And it’s clear to me that most of Europe has not even been remotely taking this seriously. Militarily Russia will obviously lose, but an unthinkable amount of people will still die.
World War III is already in it’s pre-game show phase. and Quisling governments are already trying to take hold of European countries before the drop of the ball/puck/etc
Lolololol. Russia couldn’t invade the one of the poorest countries in Europe. They couldn’t do shit against any real power. And now they’ve wasted all their equipment and men. Ok I’m out you’ve fallen hard for bs.
Ok I’m out
Good riddance.
He’s right.
Ukraine grows a LOT of grain. It’s going to be a big problem when they stop providing Europe and the world.
On a more cynical note: Ukraine grows a lot of Russian obituaries, which the EU doesn’t have to, should they try to invade the Baltics once they are successful in Ukraine.
I’m not certain why your point was downvoted (maybe the wording confused people)… but folks may grumble about paying extra taxes to financially support the Ukrainian army but that does not even compare to the rage governments would face if they started sending volunteer or drafted troops to fight the frontline.
It’s incredibly cynical of course - but if Ukraine is willing to fight and die for European freedom for the low low cost of just some money its insane to reject their offer.
Russia will not stop at Ukraine. They may stop at the Polish border, but the Baltic states are absolutely within Putin’s gaze.
Based on prices increase for the last two years « because it’s from Ukraine »… either we are being fooled by big corps or Ukraine do produces 80% goods and food for Europe
Well, if you’re from the EU, that would make sense. In America, we grow a lot of grain here in Canada and the US.
A good read: GILES, Keir, 2024. Who Will Defend Europe?. 24 October 2024. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9781911723486.
Can’t we just buy the grain off of Russia if they win? Asking for a friend
Well, you could. But imagine after all the conflict, would Russia offer a good deal? Who’d pay for the cost increase? And what else could they ask in return, more raw material for nuclear weapons, so that in 15 years they can go another round with an even better odds?
All the European cowards in the comments writing Ukraine off, now that Trump is coming to power. Without even pretending to put up a fight, without US omni presence. Shame on you. Put would kick your asses, and he know it, you’d fold just like you did to the reich. Nothing changes.
Not really. Europe’s army is “small” because we have not been drafted.
Populations:
- Europe: 450 million
- Russia: 150 million
- Ukraine: 35 million
Defending countries will draft most of their people, while the attackers draft far less. Countries that are not at war will simply not draft and will have a natural army size. (Which protects the country until people get drafted and trained)
There’s no reason to compare apples and pears here.
Europe’s population is ~744m.
EU’s population is ~450m. Not Europe’s.
However you’d also have to account for the population of all NATO countries, minus potentially the US, were it to come to a conflict against its members.
Yes I meant EU. Which I think was what Zelensky meant. Russia is part of Europe the continent anyways.
Only people taking the draft actually seriously would be nations that have been at war or occupied with russia. For westerners russia is “that funny accent vodka nation” instead of the existential, genocidal torture enthusiast nation waiting to end you.
No you’re just not one the important whites so you get treated like the rest of the world, difference being you’re close to Russia. Now if your have any melanin then your issue suddenly becomes America and the west as existential, genocidal torture enthusiast waiting to exploit every last resource you have and you let your nation collapse then have it funded by the IMF under their strict terms
Zelenskyy can go fuck himself. He’s a total idiot if he hasn’t figured out he’s a US puppet for a proxy war.
Sure, a puppet in a war on their own territory, that the other side invaded.
Ukraine wouldn’t be at war if Russia stayed in their borders.
Zelenskyy wouldn’t have need to be a “puppet” if there wasn’t a war in Ukraine.
So even if what you said was true, it is all putins fault.
of course this is from a @lemmy.ml user
Lemming says what?
Eastern Europe: “we know already, and they (pointing westwards) are starting to get it”.
Sure, bro.
Well, Trump is obviously not going to help anyone but himself. But that doesn’t mean Europe is doomed. Plenty of nuclear weapons in Europe. If anything, everyone’s doomed.
I just read “You guys are doomed with us” and thought man he’s right
I understand what he’s saying, and there is a good point to it, and i am not trying to brag, but…
Europe has the real weapons, Russia has mostly 1960 weapons left. Europe has jets that will very quickly give Europe air superiority. It has a good 4 years to prepare, Russia has broken half its teeth on Ukraine. The only advantage that the Russian army has now that it has a log of soldiers with heavy combat experience, but Europe has the advantage that it has been seeing for 4 years how Russians do their job and so far that job had been abysmal. They can barely hold their own against Ukraine troops, how are they supposed to hold their own against much more military personnel with much better weapons?
Unless things change, and ignoring nukes, once you have air superiority, that’s it, the other party is pretty much done for. Europe would not have to play by the rules that the Ukraine is playing by right now, they can and will take the fight to Russian territory.
A Russian invasion into the rest of Europe would be disastrous for Europe but it would be terminal for Russia. It would end either with Putin dead and Russia under control of Europe, or it would end with nukes which would automatically drag the entire world into WWIII after whcih we can all enjoy the fun again of living in the middle ages for the following hundred years or so.
This also ignores that, with the current abhorrent state of the Russian army as it is, they still gotta defend their own territory and they have half an actual super power sitting right next door that would also love to take bits and pieces of it. In the state they currently are, how are they going to do that, and then also take enough to defend Europe? Putin may be a dictator, but he too had to deal with popularity, and hoe populair you think he’ll be once he needs to do two or three new draft rounds to get enough people to fight his wars?
I don’t see a European invasion happening, it’d be the same mistake as Hitler invading Russia back then
