Exactly this. People are oversimplify the whole story. In my opinion there’s 2 camps of people who currently supports Palestine.
They just don’t know the historical background and don’t know specifically -what- Hamas did the 7th, nor the huge support Hamas has in Palestine. (to clarify, A TERROR GROUP that has SUMMER CAMPS where they train kids to become terrorists).
They support them because they enjoy jews getting killed.
Concidering how the rich arab countries has reacted during their neighbour’s times of need earlier: closing borders and not caring, group number 2 seems likely.
Just picture that the Palestinians actually celebrate Hamas terrorist attack, they feel joy over the actions many of us now have seen on videos and they celebrate it even in the streets in Western countries.
Imagine that 57% of Palestinians supports Hamas and 50% are against the idea of peace, 71% supports PIJ (Islamic Jihad), all while Biden won his election with 51%, Obama won with 53%, George Bush won in 1989 by 53%, last time any president got more votes than the support Hamas has in Palestine was in 1984, 39 years ago! Source about Palestinians support.
That’s how enormous the support of Hamas is, and some of ya’ll are defending them. You need to watch the videos released of the atrocities Hamas committed, see the actions that you’re defending, but I bet you don’t even have the stomachs for it.
What about the group that’s aware that Palestinians were forced out of their homes and have been forced to live in impoverished conditions for decades?
What about the group that recognizes the actions of both sides as being wrong and that neither side is “right”?
There are many Israelis fighting hard to protect civilian lives, both in Gaza and the West Bank. You should look up B’Tselem. Quite a few of their activists got arrested over the last few days for peacefully protesting the bombing campaign.
Oh yes I’m not justifying israels expansion at all, israel isn’t some completely innocent toddler sitting in a corner. It’s however very interesting that you’re excusing the recorded actions that has showed up online though, the rape, the murders, the torture, the executions of whole families in their homes, because “israel also did bad!”.
I feel no empathy for those who affiliates themselves, supports, and/or celebrates it. Those actions regardless of the reason or source are absolutely fucking despicable. They specifically targetted civilians instead of soldiers, police, or people in the government. They went in to specifically kill anybody that couldn’t defend themselves simply for being jewish, and living in Israel. Watch the clips again and then tell me “Oh yeah well what about…”
Nobody is exusing anything. Shelling cities and blowing up residential buildings Is bad. So is raping and murdering civilians.
Most of us just want the violence to stop on both sides. Hamas was a side effect of Israel’s oppression. Same as most other terrorist groups and gangs. Everyone is doing awful things and it just needs to fucking stop.
Your comments are rife with false dichotomies, strawmen, and general fabrications. If that’s what you need to make your points, you might want to look at your stance critically and ask yourself some hard questions.
It’s cute when someone posts claims contradicted by their own source. The link actually says that “57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas”.
Consider that while Hamas is a terrorist organisation it also runs social programs, exactly to effectively buy this kind of support. For some poor family in Gaza struggling to survive it’s unsurprising that if given handouts by Hamas that some will express that kind of muted positive views even for a dictatorial regime that 70% of Gazans wants removed from power per the same link (see below).
To try to twist that into “supports” is victim-blaming of the worst sort.
Should we meanwhile talk about Israel, where there actually are regular elections and majorities keep voting in regimes that perpetuate an apartheid regime and commits gross crimes against humanity? Or is it only people in Gaza who are responsible for their governments actions, despite the fact that the majority of those of voting age in Gaza were not old enough to be part of the electorate that brought Hamas to power (in an election where they got a minority of votes).
some of ya’ll are defending them
Just like some are defending the mass murderous apartheid regime of Israel or try to implicate Palestinian civilians for actions they had no party in.
Meanwhile most of us think Hamas are terrorists but also recognise that Israel is an oppressive apartheid state and the only party with the power to actually end this, and yet is doubling down on crimes against humanity.
If you think hating Palestinians is justified because of support for Hamas while they do terrible things, do you also think it is justified to hate Israel for the inhumanity the Israeli government (which has the support of the Israeli people) has perpetuated since Israel was brought into the region?
And plenty of Americans (probably around 50% given recent election results) would rejoice over any innocent civilian we killed in “the war on terror” and would defend war criminals in the US military. Would that make it okay to starve and bomb the entire population of the US? Is everyone in this country a war criminal?
Misinformation, stereotypes, and “Wuttabaut 'murica” galore! Truly hit the trifecta. Not really no, when war crimes have been brought up the general concensus has been jail. Don’t make shit up.
Famous examples are that navy seal “Eddie Gallagher” or the 4 blackwater guys that killed 14 civilians in 2007. They were all convicted, but made the big headlines with a huge backlash after Trump pardoned them, the absolute fucking bafoon… If clips surfaced of american soldiers comitting these actions, people would be outraged. Remember Guantanamo bay? There was a huge public backlash and push towards closing it from all sides, and there’s strong support for arguing “the war” was lost because the public turned against it.
Google “american soldier jailed afghanistan” and the list of links will just keep going page by page. You’ll never see any terrorist imprisoned in Palestine because of their involvement and participation in the 7th october. But yeah sure “WHAT ABOUT 'MURICANS?!?!?!”
How do you prove my point way better than I could, but still act like you made a point against me?
Like you say Trump pardoned them, and almost 50% of the country had no problem with that.
You mention guantanamo, but it’s still open and nobody cares.
And not to mention things like the Hague invasion act, where the US says it will literally invade Europe if the ICC tries to bring an American to court for war crimes. And most of the US doesn’t care, hell a lot fucking support that idea cuz 'murica.
And anyway you completely fucking misread my comment. I’m not saying palestine is innocent because America did bad things. Its not whattaboutism its me saying “what if this was happening to you”? What I’d some chud decided that it was fair to punish the whole USA because shitty people in your country have a lot of support.
That’s the point of the comment that you so conveniently ignored.
It’s simple, don’t steal their houses, encroach on their land, fracture their community into an archipelago divided by walls, and put checkpoints every two miles, and restrict trade. Don’t do any of that, especially don’t do it while preaching about genocide and the holocaust and then asking for hand outs. Then I wouldn’t care, and might even support israel.
This why Palestinians hate Israel, Israel literally destroyed their country.
Also pretty fucking rich to dig elections from 17 years ago where Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize other groups so people like you would be fooled.
Hamas are obviously fascistic, and they were voted in by Palestinians. Which means that IDF is being an antifascist in their current operations. Punch a nazi and all that.
You forgot another important point: the absolute majority of Muslims will defend Palestine, no matter what they do.
You risk being reprimanded in your Muslim community if you aren’t 100 % pro Palestine and often also when you aren’t pro Hamas. It has become part of their identity.
What a bullshit and extremely simplistic take on the situation. As if they have been the victims here for 70 years.
Palestinians haven’t been the victims here? The ones being evicted and shot by illegal “settlers” for decades?
I mean, didn’t this all start from a war where Israel was attacked by 3 countries and beat all of them so bad they actually gained ground?
“Egypt attacked me, so I get to annex the West Bank now”
Yeah, that’s not how logic works.
Exactly this. People are oversimplify the whole story. In my opinion there’s 2 camps of people who currently supports Palestine.
They just don’t know the historical background and don’t know specifically -what- Hamas did the 7th, nor the huge support Hamas has in Palestine. (to clarify, A TERROR GROUP that has SUMMER CAMPS where they train kids to become terrorists).
They support them because they enjoy jews getting killed.
Concidering how the rich arab countries has reacted during their neighbour’s times of need earlier: closing borders and not caring, group number 2 seems likely.
Just picture that the Palestinians actually celebrate Hamas terrorist attack, they feel joy over the actions many of us now have seen on videos and they celebrate it even in the streets in Western countries.
Imagine that 57% of Palestinians supports Hamas and 50% are against the idea of peace, 71% supports PIJ (Islamic Jihad), all while Biden won his election with 51%, Obama won with 53%, George Bush won in 1989 by 53%, last time any president got more votes than the support Hamas has in Palestine was in 1984, 39 years ago! Source about Palestinians support.
That’s how enormous the support of Hamas is, and some of ya’ll are defending them. You need to watch the videos released of the atrocities Hamas committed, see the actions that you’re defending, but I bet you don’t even have the stomachs for it.
What about the group that’s aware that Palestinians were forced out of their homes and have been forced to live in impoverished conditions for decades?
What about the group that recognizes the actions of both sides as being wrong and that neither side is “right”?
They’ll be ignored because all Israelis know what the state’s endgame is here and all its horrible implications.
There are many Israelis fighting hard to protect civilian lives, both in Gaza and the West Bank. You should look up B’Tselem. Quite a few of their activists got arrested over the last few days for peacefully protesting the bombing campaign.
Oh yes I’m not justifying israels expansion at all, israel isn’t some completely innocent toddler sitting in a corner. It’s however very interesting that you’re excusing the recorded actions that has showed up online though, the rape, the murders, the torture, the executions of whole families in their homes, because “israel also did bad!”.
I feel no empathy for those who affiliates themselves, supports, and/or celebrates it. Those actions regardless of the reason or source are absolutely fucking despicable. They specifically targetted civilians instead of soldiers, police, or people in the government. They went in to specifically kill anybody that couldn’t defend themselves simply for being jewish, and living in Israel. Watch the clips again and then tell me “Oh yeah well what about…”
Nobody is exusing anything. Shelling cities and blowing up residential buildings Is bad. So is raping and murdering civilians.
Most of us just want the violence to stop on both sides. Hamas was a side effect of Israel’s oppression. Same as most other terrorist groups and gangs. Everyone is doing awful things and it just needs to fucking stop.
Your comments are rife with false dichotomies, strawmen, and general fabrications. If that’s what you need to make your points, you might want to look at your stance critically and ask yourself some hard questions.
It’s cute when someone posts claims contradicted by their own source. The link actually says that “57% of Gazans express at least a somewhat positive opinion of Hamas”.
Consider that while Hamas is a terrorist organisation it also runs social programs, exactly to effectively buy this kind of support. For some poor family in Gaza struggling to survive it’s unsurprising that if given handouts by Hamas that some will express that kind of muted positive views even for a dictatorial regime that 70% of Gazans wants removed from power per the same link (see below).
To try to twist that into “supports” is victim-blaming of the worst sort.
Should we meanwhile talk about Israel, where there actually are regular elections and majorities keep voting in regimes that perpetuate an apartheid regime and commits gross crimes against humanity? Or is it only people in Gaza who are responsible for their governments actions, despite the fact that the majority of those of voting age in Gaza were not old enough to be part of the electorate that brought Hamas to power (in an election where they got a minority of votes).
Just like some are defending the mass murderous apartheid regime of Israel or try to implicate Palestinian civilians for actions they had no party in.
Meanwhile most of us think Hamas are terrorists but also recognise that Israel is an oppressive apartheid state and the only party with the power to actually end this, and yet is doubling down on crimes against humanity.
To focus on Hamas is deflection.
If you think hating Palestinians is justified because of support for Hamas while they do terrible things, do you also think it is justified to hate Israel for the inhumanity the Israeli government (which has the support of the Israeli people) has perpetuated since Israel was brought into the region?
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Ah yes, the solution to all the murder is even more murder!
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And plenty of Americans (probably around 50% given recent election results) would rejoice over any innocent civilian we killed in “the war on terror” and would defend war criminals in the US military. Would that make it okay to starve and bomb the entire population of the US? Is everyone in this country a war criminal?
Misinformation, stereotypes, and “Wuttabaut 'murica” galore! Truly hit the trifecta. Not really no, when war crimes have been brought up the general concensus has been jail. Don’t make shit up.
Famous examples are that navy seal “Eddie Gallagher” or the 4 blackwater guys that killed 14 civilians in 2007. They were all convicted, but made the big headlines with a huge backlash after Trump pardoned them, the absolute fucking bafoon… If clips surfaced of american soldiers comitting these actions, people would be outraged. Remember Guantanamo bay? There was a huge public backlash and push towards closing it from all sides, and there’s strong support for arguing “the war” was lost because the public turned against it.
Google “american soldier jailed afghanistan” and the list of links will just keep going page by page. You’ll never see any terrorist imprisoned in Palestine because of their involvement and participation in the 7th october. But yeah sure “WHAT ABOUT 'MURICANS?!?!?!”
How do you prove my point way better than I could, but still act like you made a point against me?
Like you say Trump pardoned them, and almost 50% of the country had no problem with that.
You mention guantanamo, but it’s still open and nobody cares.
And not to mention things like the Hague invasion act, where the US says it will literally invade Europe if the ICC tries to bring an American to court for war crimes. And most of the US doesn’t care, hell a lot fucking support that idea cuz 'murica.
And anyway you completely fucking misread my comment. I’m not saying palestine is innocent because America did bad things. Its not whattaboutism its me saying “what if this was happening to you”? What I’d some chud decided that it was fair to punish the whole USA because shitty people in your country have a lot of support.
That’s the point of the comment that you so conveniently ignored.
If you have to lie to make your point, maybe you should reconsider how valid your point is.
It’s simple, don’t steal their houses, encroach on their land, fracture their community into an archipelago divided by walls, and put checkpoints every two miles, and restrict trade. Don’t do any of that, especially don’t do it while preaching about genocide and the holocaust and then asking for hand outs. Then I wouldn’t care, and might even support israel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba?wprov=sfla1
This why Palestinians hate Israel, Israel literally destroyed their country.
Also pretty fucking rich to dig elections from 17 years ago where Israel supported Hamas to delegitimize other groups so people like you would be fooled.
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Hamas are obviously fascistic, and they were voted in by Palestinians. Which means that IDF is being an antifascist in their current operations. Punch a nazi and all that.
Just to clarify, being antifascist necessitates being against fascism of all kinds, not just the ones who are your enemy.
Not to imply that the IDF are being fascist, but genocide is a likely outcome, whether ideologically intentional or incidental.
At the end of the day, this is a language game. Personally, I don’t care for the semantics of it all. I’m honestly quite anti-semantic.
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You forgot another important point: the absolute majority of Muslims will defend Palestine, no matter what they do. You risk being reprimanded in your Muslim community if you aren’t 100 % pro Palestine and often also when you aren’t pro Hamas. It has become part of their identity.