A sex offender convicted of making more than 1,000 indecent images of children has been banned from using any “AI creating tools” for the next five years in the first known case of its kind.
Anthony Dover, 48, was ordered by a UK court “not to use, visit or access” artificial intelligence generation tools without the prior permission of police as a condition of a sexual harm prevention order imposed in February.
The ban prohibits him from using tools such as text-to-image generators, which can make lifelike pictures based on a written command, and “nudifying” websites used to make explicit “deepfakes”.
Dover, who was given a community order and £200 fine, has also been explicitly ordered not to use Stable Diffusion software, which has reportedly been exploited by paedophiles to create hyper-realistic child sexual abuse material, according to records from a sentencing hearing at Poole magistrates court.
I definitely can’t let you do that, Hal.
As a UK citizen, I’m ashamed of my government.
I am firmly against child abusers, but AI images don’t harm anyone and are a safe and harmless way for pedophiles to fulfil their urges, which they cannot control.
It brings me to ask the question if lolicon could be their next target?
Where does the training data come from to create indecent images of children?
Ai is able to fill in the last field in a table like “Old / young” vs “Clothed / naked” when given three of the four fields.
It doesn’t need csam data for training, it just needs to know what a boob looks like, and what a child looks like. I run some sdxl-based models at home and I’ve observed it can be difficult to avoid more often than you’d think. There are keywords in porn that blend the lines across datasets (“teen”, “petite”, “young”, “small” etc). The word “girl” in particular I’ve found that if you add that to basically any porn prompt gives you a small chance of inadvertently creating the undesirable. You have to be really careful and use words like “woman”, “adult”, etc instead to convince your image model not to make things that look like children. If you’ve ever wondered why internet-based porn generators are on super heavy guardrails, this is why.
It is true, a 10 year old naked woman is just a 30 year old naked woman scaled down by 40%. /s
No buddy, there isn’t some vector of “this is the distance between kid and adult” that a model can apply to generate what a hypothetical child looks like. The base model was almost certainly trained on more than just anatomical drawings from Wikipedia - it ate some csam.
If you’ve seen stuff about “Hitler - Germany + Italy = Mousillini” for models where that’s true (which is not universal) it takes an awful lot of training data to establish and strengthen those vectors. Unless the generated images were comically inaccurate then a lot of training went into this too.
Right, and the google image ai gobbled up a bunch of images of black george washington, right? They must have been in the data set, there’s no way to blend a vector from one value to another, like you said. That would be madness. Nope, must have been copious amounts of asian nazis in the training set, since the model is incapable of blending concepts.
You’re incorrect and you should fucking know better.
I have no idea why my comment above was downvoted to hell but AI can’t “dream up” what a naked young person looks like. An AI can figure that adults wear different clothes and put a black woman in a revolutionary war outfit. These are totally different concepts.
You can downvote me if you like but your AI generated csam is based on real csam so fuck off. I’m disappointed there is such a large proportion of people defending csam here especially since lemmy should be technically oriented - I expect to see more input from fellow AI fluent people.
You’re spreading misinformation and getting called out for it.
It isn’t misinformation, though, generative AI needs a basis for it’s generation.
Just a note - csam has been found in model training sets: https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/news/investigation-finds-ai-image-generation-models-trained-child-abuse
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Thanks for the reply, it’s given me a good idea of what’s most likely happening :)
It’s a shame that the rest of the thread went to shit, but unfortunately it’s an emotional topic, and brings out emotional responses
Always happy to try and productively add to someone’s learning.
Please reiterate your statement but instead using the “goose chase meme” format.
The sexualization of children in any form is disgusting and harmful.
Pedophiles need medical and psychological help, not encouragement in fulfilling their urges. Society should reject the sexualization of children. Full stop.
Current mental help methods for pedophiles include acceptance of their desires as normal, just not something to act on IRL.
It does not prohibit any fictional materials including children, nor can it make someone uninterested in children.
By stripping away safe outlets, we come at risk of these people increasingly turning to real CSAM, which is way more harmful.
I wish legislators would follow science instead of knee-jerk.
Current mental help methods for pedophiles include acceptance of their desires as normal, just not something to act on IRL.
I am not aware of the research in this area although I have a minor psych background so that’s interesting and makes sense in hindsight. My understanding is that a large part of the compulsion is driven by guilt, shame, feelings of worthlessness, prior victimizations of themselves, etc. Essentially trying to gain a sense of power by taking it from those more vulnerable than them, like an abuser beating their spouse because someone at work put them down. So it makes sense to encourage a sense of power and lessen any sense of guilt and shame.
On a side note, I can’t imagine having their name plastered everywhere does anything but trigger the compulsion to re-offend. Maybe when we advance more as a society, we can separate individuals into categories of has-offended and child-attracted, with the former being on a public danger list and the latter having frequent discreet visits by social workers and mandatory counselors, etc. To lessen the chance of offense and possibly start helping them before they get to the offense stage (those that were ever going to offend.)
What do you know of the current methods. Where did this information come from? I’d really like to see it. You spoke with such knowledge, you must have the data to make it up, right?
The approach was originally pioneered by the Prevention Project Dunkelfeld, and later adopted for a wider use in Germany, Europe and abroad.
Studies have shown that this approach does work, which led to its widespread adoption and popularization.
You can read details of the treatments coming out of this research here.
Beware of the corporate greed and prepare good old Sci-hub to read sources in full text if you want to.
i read three of the sources you provided (all of them, except the book), and the only thing you’ve said which is true is that the treatment ‘includes acceptance of their desires’ (though you have added the words ‘as normal’)
the other two claims you’ve made, including ‘it does not prohibit any fictional materials including children’ and ‘by stripping away safe outlets we may come at risk of these people increasingly turning to real CSAM’ are your own inventions, and are not stated anywhere in the texts you have linked, in fact, they are directly refuted by both of them, because the actual prevention project recommends a combination of cognitive behavioral therapy and medication
I specifically addressed the “current methods” part of it, as questioned.
The second point was beyond the scope of the sources I provided, except maybe the book, but the project is in line with this as well - it does not focus on the fictional materials and does not explicitly prohibit them. It doesn’t encourage the consumption of such materials, either, so the position can be best described as “neutral”. It does, however, strongly object real CSAM.
The latter was answered in another thread - yes, you are right about this being my speculation, as the scientific community, for all I know, currently doesn’t have data to either prove or disprove this point. But that seems likely to me.
I’m pretty sure that this is not true. I’d love to see sources.
There was some research before the ongoing AI-panic, focusing on hentai instead. As it is as “harmless” as the AI-generated content.
And I do recall that at the time there were voices in research making the point that the consumption of material did not have correlation with actually reducing the urges. So this seems highly unlikely.
Upon proper search, I agree I must have been too rushed in decisions as the topic of the influence of computer-generated or drawn CSAM on escalation in offending still seems to be a matter of speculations, with severe lack of sources on both sides (correct me if I’m wrong).
Both sides draw from singular testimonials.
Still, I will remove the notion on science. Thank you for issuing the correction.
P.S. This paper does some job of evaluating both sides, although has its own strong bias not based on presented evidence. Still, it is useful to get some basic overview of the current state of affairs.
This sort of problem-solving acumen is how HIV became so widespread in Africa. Have you considered instead trying competence?
Have you considered not advocating for the sexualization of children?
I don’t know what the right answer is, but we provide substitutes for drug addicts to help them overcome their addictions. Methadone and nicotine patches come to mind.
Is it completely inconceivable that a similar tool would help with harmful sexual desires?
I was listening to a podcast on moral philosophy (wouldn’t you wanna be as cool as me??), and one suggestion that’s stuck with me was the morality of, trigger warning,
spoiler
‘life like child sex robots’.
As in, would we as a society want to permit such things, knowing that they could potentially save humans from actual harm if they offer an outlet that scratches an itch? On the other hand, would they bring forth more harmful desires in a greater number of potential perpetrators, leading to even more harm?
Anyway, I’m glad it’s not my job to contemplate such disturbing topics.
Let’s compare it with adult pornography. Does the consumption of adult pornography remove the desire to have sex with another adult in the long term? Or does it reinforce the sexually desirable characteristics of adults?
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How could they possibly enforce this ban?
Maybe they think he is capable of self enforcing the ruling?
Or that they want the option of gaoling him if they so much as get a hint he’s using one of the services in any capacity.
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What do you mean? With fines and jail?
How will they even know he’s doing it? It doesn’t say they’re monitoring his internet connection. And even if they were monitoring his internet connection, he could go to some public wifi hotspot and sit in a car and do it.
There’s a log for everything. There really is. It’s just hard to piece it all together.
I edited my comment. You’re too quick.
But yeah, he could get around it. But, he’s an addict. He’s going to want that porn other places then his car and make mistakes. If he’s tech savvy, he can probably stay one step ahead of his probation agent (assuming he has one). If he’s not, he’ll slip up because he’s addicted, and that’s how people get caught.
Difficult indeed. Maybe banning him from owning a computer or graphics card capable of running local models. Installing spyware on his devices. I’m sure he could get around it, undetected, for a while, if he was determined. But he would be gambling at getting caught.
To be honest I don’t really see the point. We are getting to a point where anyone can generate any image of anything at any time. Let him have his fun. We can’t sexual conversion therapy him and he isn’t hurting anyone. Ones and zeroes, bits and bytes.
For anyone who thinks conversion therapy works; imagine someone trying to convert you from your sexuality. Let’s say I tried to make you gay. Would that ever work for you?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Internet Watch Foundation (IWF) said the prosecutions were a “landmark” moment that “should sound the alarm that criminals producing AI-generated child sexual abuse images are like one-man factories, capable of churning out some of the most appalling imagery”.
Susie Hargreaves, the charity’s chief executive, said that while AI-generated sexual abuse imagery currently made up “a relatively low” proportion of reports, they were seeing a “slow but continual increase” in cases, and that some of the material was “highly realistic”.
The Lucy Faithfull Foundation (LFF), which runs the confidential Stop It Now helpline for people worried about their thoughts or behaviour, said it had received multiple calls about AI images and that it was a “concerning trend growing at pace”.
The decision to ban an adult sex offender from using AI generation tools could set a precedent for future monitoring of people convicted of indecent image offences.
Stability AI, the company behind Stable Diffusion, said the concerns about child abuse material related to an earlier version of the software, which was released to the public by one of its partners.
It said that since taking over the exclusive licence in 2022 it had invested in features to prevent misuse including “filters to intercept unsafe prompts and outputs” and that it banned any use of its services for unlawful activity.
The original article contains 974 words, the summary contains 219 words. Saved 78%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
wank foundation
How you will enforce this kind of politics? I just buy a VPN, use proxychains or annonsurf, what you gonna do? put a police to live in the same room as I live?
Strange to use yourself as the person creating child pornography in this hypothetical.
Come on, they’re raising concerns about how this ruling will be made effective. An actual criminal would just stay silent and use the VNP.
Jesus Christ is that @PotatoKat@lemmy.world ’s music I hear?
UK legislators have a long history of taking actions not informed by science or reason but rather the popular, often hysteric, opinion.
This case is yet another attempt at tightening screws where they shouldn’t be.
AI imagery was produced by Stable Diffusion, the model that, for all we know, did not take real CSAM as inputs and caused no harm to actual children. At the same time, such images are important at discouraging the consumption of real CSAM, with very real children being traumatized.
By banning AI imagery production using safe models, legislators leave no legal way for pedophiles to get something by the harmless means, directing many to the harmful ways as equally illegal, while also prosecuting those who did no harm.
counter point:
if you have a folder of AI generated CP and put in a couple of pictures of actual CP it’s going to muddle the case as the offender could claim all of them are simply AI generated. Real harm could go unnoticed if those two were to be treated differently.
Additionally, not every offender will stop at AI generated images, and if their curiosity becomes enough they could go on to want to experience “the real thing”.
I think the solution here is not banning AI materials outright but to make them identifiable - even by means of digital signatures if you want.
For example, Stable Diffusion could insert particular piece of metadata into the picture containing the signature and proving the image is AI-generated, etc.
Without AI materials, said curiosity may lead people straight to the “real thing”, and every darknet or even Telegram dweller will tell you it’s frighteningly easy to find it even if you never intended to. With AI materials, people can have a chance to stop there.
meta data is trivially easy to strip off a picture, you don’t even need to bother using tools for it - just take a screenshot and delete the original
Can be baked in pixels, or even better sent to identification for a system similar to what Apple uses to detect CSAM, but as an “alright” ID (but just in police’s hands, not on device or something).
But even then, if every pixel gets marked as ‘created by AI’, it would still be trivial to take real CSAM and run it through an image-to-image generator with denoising turned down to 0.05 and suddenly you have real CSAM that has been marked as ‘legal’ since it is technically AI generated.
Also, keep in mind that there are several open source projects out there where anyone who knows what they are doing could just strip out any protections that might be put in place.
I thought pedophiles looking at CSAM were more likely to attack a child, not less. They are actively fantasizing about it, and that can escalate.
I am basing this belief on what I remember of discussions regarding that “ask a rapist” reddit megathread. Apparently psychologists thought that was horrifying.
The bias with this approach is that it highlights those who did offend, while telling us nothing of those who didn’t. This is often repeated throughout research as well.
It’s very likely that a lot of child abusers did watch CSAM (after all, if you see no issue in child abuse, there’s no issue for you in the creation of such imagery), but how many CSAM viewers end up being abusers and is there an elevated risk? That is the question.
I guess if we’d make an “ask a pedophile” thread instead of “ask a rapist”, we could get some insights. Pedophiles, catch the idea!
But then we cannot say that in either direction. We simply don’t know if they are more or less likely to attack a child without data about it.
By “harmful ways” I meant consuming more real CSAM - something that is frustratingly underresearched as well, but one can guess.
By banning AI imagery production using safe models, legislators leave no legal way for pedophiles to get something by the harmless means.
Paedophile’s are not entitled to, nor should they get “something” or anything when it comes to any desire to engage in sexual abuse of a child.
directing many to the harmful ways as equally illegal
No, that is not the cause nor does it provide any justification.
while also prosecuting those who did no harm.
Consumers of CSAM in ANY form are doing the worst harm. There is no excuse that can be provided to justify this. Take a long look at your life. Children are not sexual objects, AI generated or not.
There’s no csam because there’s no child. Critical thinking is hard I know.
It’s not a matter of entitlement but of a real world harm. And generated imagery involving imaginary children does not constitude child sexual abuse.
I’d gladly give pedophiles generated imagery if that were to stop them from lurking in search of real CSAM, supporting the industry that creates a very tangible harm - actual child abuse.
And my life has nothing to do with either, so don’t make it personal. I only share my opinion on what we should really do to protect children, not to protect our deeply rooted views.
Sure they’re entitled to something.
Coping mechanisms to help them not pursue that desire, or a first class ticket on a rocket to the sun.
There is no middle ground.
