I’m not sure if this is the right community for this question, but it says “no stupid question” so here goes. I’m an Israeli who now lives in the US, but I am considering permanently residing in the US or elsewhere (perhaps somewhere in Europe or Canada) because I’ve become kinda disillusioned with Israel for a variety of reasons (the war in Gaza being one of them, the erosion of democracy by Likud being another, and etc) but is that cowardly to leave? Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good? Thanks for your time.
This is a deeply personal choice. Don’t let other people decide for you. Think about how you want to live for the next 5, 10,15 years and what you want to spend that time doing.
I didn’t read this as OP wanting others to decide for them, but to help them think things through; maybe get a new perspective.
There’s certainly nothing “cowardly” about leaving. Live where you feel comfortable being. Wherever you feel happy.
Yeah, this isn’t something that any of us can decide for you. And any views will be clouded by how people think on the Israel-Hamas conflict.
Ironically I’m firmly in the middle on the conflict compared to a lot of what I’ve seen from the online left, but compared to most israeli policymakers, I am far left. It’s weird.
To be fair, the current Israeli government has far-right members in it, so a centrist would look far-left in comparison!
Yeah I’m just center-left, but that’s “far left” or even “extreme” left in the Israeli politics now…
If your wish to change things is the only thing that makes you want to go back, be honest with yourself, do you actually have the ability to change anything?
Probably not
Do you want to try to change anything if you did have the ability?
If not, and you don’t plan on living there. then it just comes down to whether citizenship has some kind of positive for you like being able to freely travel or something like that.
Well I’m fairly politically active, so kinda
My family left Iran before I was born and I’m grateful they did. What could we have done to change the country from within? Unfortunately nothing.
Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good?
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”
I can’t tell you what to do but I can tell you that getting out of a bad situation you had no hand in creating doesn’t make you a coward, it just means you’re rational.
Thanks :)
to ask questions even while anxious is something to be commended on especially since you aren’t sure about what the right choices could be
I think it’s actually brave to ask for help especially in difficult situations such as the one you’re in
“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” - Marcus Aurelius
Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good?
This brings back memories from a well known anime called Code Geass where 2 of the characters have a debate on whether change can either be born from within the system or if it must be made externally
- Lelouch vs Suzaku
Personally I’d say it’s external but I don’t know if this is closest to the truth of the perfect solution
From recent historical records like Hong Kong and Ukraine🌻 vs Russia
- brain drain is a real thing and it seems that to continue living under oppression and subjugation is probably the worst if not wrong decision as you’d be unintentionally sacrificing yourself for a corrupt authority
change is probably a mix of both internal and external
- but to continue living in an state of eroding democracy might be more detrimental than benefical to most
- as I’m writing this, I find it funny that this could be said the same for the fediverse here
Thanks for this response. Israel also is facing AFAIK a slower brain drain because Israelis with education and money tend to move.
You should choose whatever lets you sleep best at night.
So of course in the end it should come down to what you want to do and where you see yourself living a happier life, and not what people on the internet think you should do. However, purely from a “making the world a better place” perspective, I’d recommend not returning. I get the idea of trying to change society from within, but frankly I think Israel in its current state is beyond saving. The sense of invincibility, among other issues, is too much for simple activism to fix; the country as a whole needs the Nazi Germay treatment (the de-Nazification part, not the war part). At least by not being in Israel you make sure your tax money and children aren’t used in genocide.
I repeat, do what you feel is best for you, but to directly answer your question your absence does more to weaken the Israeli Apartheid apparatus than your presence. Do vote though; definitely vote.
No. Nobody owes their country of origin, shit. They don’t care about you at all. They don’t care about their own people. If you can flip a switch and make it better, do it, but don’t sacrifice your life, literally or figuratively, for a cause you can’t change.
Prob correct
You don’t owe anything to a country just because you were born there, unless you owe taxes, which is inevitable lol. I left my home country for better opportunities and (hopefully) a better life. For most people, uprooting yourself and moving to another country for good is a once-in-a-lifetime chance/opportunity, so take that into account. Good luck.
It is cowardly, but the amount of good you can do is much greater while you’re alive and healthy. Cowardice is an evolutionary trait. It helps us survive. Don’t let it become guilt. If democracy has truly eroded and Israel is beyond redemption as you hypothesize, then there is nothing you could have done as an individual to begin with.
How is looking out for yourself cowardly ? Especially with what Israel is doing.
The brave thing to do, conversely, would be to return to Israel and do everything in your power to make this catastrophe stop. Door to door activism, arranging speaking events, educating youth, protesting in front of the Knesset. Throw your body into the machine until the gears stop turning.
But not everybody will, and not everyone is even capable of doing so, nor is it the only option to create a better future.
the Earth is huge go start over. People die crossing borders. No one wants to cross a border into a warzone.
I have nothing nice to say about the state of Israel, but as an individual you owe it to yourself to live wherever you can that you will be happiest. I can think of reasons to leave the US, including its support for Israel, but I know I would be unhappy anywhere else and my leaving wouldn’t change anything.
From what I understand, the situation in Israel seems especially bad lately. I do not blame any Israeli for wanting to get out or not go back.
second (third (fourth)) the comments this being a personal choice
but “thanks” (/s) to the diasporas, you don’t have to limit your options to just the US (or Europe) – there are Jewish communities solidly established all over the world (your limit will be your language skills more than anything else)
I speak Spanish as well as English and Hebrew, so I guess there’s always Argentina or Chile.
(off topic: if you want to use your Spanish and get in some historical tourism, hit up southern Spain – the areas that were under Moorish control)
I was lucky enough to have dual nationality and left many years ago, but then I always knew I would because I never felt like I fit in there, so I have no regrets, except for not leaving sooner - before the army would have been better, but I wasn’t able too get out of it.
Be prepared though - life as an immigrant and a foreigner can have it’s own challenges, as can being a Jew outside of Israel, and the “grass” - the political and social aspects of life might be different, but it isn’t necessarily greener - fascism is on the rise more or less everywhere you go, as is the cost of living.
You only get one life, as long as you aren’t harming anyone - do what’s best for you, and remember that to create a better society the workers of the world need to unite, so it doesn’t matter where you are physically, you can and should still be part of a force for change.
I don’t want to give too much personal information, but if you have any questions, I can do my best to answer.