Finally. A true alternative to gasoline vehicles has begun to arrive. I’d never buy a current gen or older pure EV because I’d never want to spend $10,000+ on a battery replacement after its 10 years old or have something with a 250 mile range that takes 45 minutes to charge most of the way up. Give the world a 350 mile (real world usage) battery that can charge in under 15 minutes and lasts 20 years, that’s total replacement territory.
Huh
Battery replacement after ten years is for very old EVs shrub much shorter range. The old model Nissan Leaf is what makes these stories. More recent cars have already outlasted the usage that the old pretty bad ones had by a significant amount. Your criticism is like saying you don’t want a mobile phone because the buttons are so fiddly.
That’s mighty hard of you to really claim, since EV’s only started to become common about 12 years ago. It wasn’t even until 2017 that the EV market broke 1% of vehicles on the road. Li-NMC batteries will eventually fail. They haven’t been in EV’s long enough to say they’ll likely last 15 years. If they industry was really sure they would, the warranty period on them would be better than 8 years or 100,000 miles to provide 70% total capacity. If I only had barely over 2/3 of my battery capacity left after 100k miles I’d be pretty upset.
At first I thought, damn a 600 mile battery. That’s a big battery.
For a smaller EV It would take around 200kWh worth of battery for a 600 mile range. The current Tesla “superchargers” put out 250kWh. So whatever is going to charge this battery will have to output roughly an order of magnitude more power in order to charge the battery in 6 minutes. That’s an impressive and scary amount of energy transfer.
A couple things: solid state batteries weigh much less. Solid state batteries are 30-50% lighter per kWh. The initial ones will probably be closer to 30% lighter. A 100 kWh battery weighs about 1400 lbs (635 kg). Shaving off 400 lbs is pretty significant and results in much better range for the same battery capacity. The battery pack is likely closer to 150 kWh.
Second thing would be the charge rate. Yes, a supercharger can 250 kW output (not kWh BTW) but a few factors means that they often do not. First thing would be heat. If the charging cable or the battery gets too hot, the the rate slows down. The next thing would be the fact that current batteries have to start at a slow rate and end at a slow rate. Solid state batteries do not have those issue nearly as much and can more consistently hit that 250 kW output for a longer period of time.
This thing, they are likely using 350+ kW chargers. Higher than 350 kW is pretty rare but the odd 400 kW and 450 kW charger does exist.
And doing some more digging, I found that it is from 8% to 80% in 9 minutes. And even then, it does not say it is the same 150 kWh battery that is being charged that fast. This could be marketing crap where it is giving numbers for a ~85 kWh battery to compare it to EVs today. An Ioniq 5 takes about twice as long to go from 10-80% at 350 kW.
Super informative, thanks :)
The current Tesla “superchargers” put out 250kWh
kW
My wall outlet charger puts out 250 kWh, if you leave it in for 2 weeks straight…
So each supercharger will need it’s own miniature fusion power plant. Great, now fast charging solid state batteries will always be 30 years away.
I’d love to imagine around 20 years later people would be retrofitting old and heavy phone, laptop, and EV batteries with lighter and faster-charging ones…
Great, now car manufacturers need to figure out how they can make it stop holding charge at 10years.
So what’s the catch? Is it the price?
FTA:
Apparently, they are also rather expensive to produce, since it warns that they will first go into the “super premium” EV segment of luxury electric cars that can cover more than 600 miles on a charge.
So yes. Expensive initially.
Remember the Note 7 recalls?
https://www.gta5-mods.com/weapons/samsung-galaxy-note-7-bomb
Actually the risk of that should be lower
The whole point of a solid state battery is that they don’t do that.
Basically, yes. The big issue with solid state batteries is figuring out how to mass produce them at a price where someone will actually buy them.
Samsung
Battery
/s
Don’t fly your car with the Samsung battery.
600 miles? Call me when they make one small enough to fit in a car
heyooooo
It’s such a dumb metric for batteries. I wish people would stop using it.
I mean its a more a metric for the over vehicle. It can move its self that distance on a charge.
The battery would kWh but that alone is insufficient for evaluating the vehicle
kWh/Kg is really all that matters, maybe max charge/discharge rates too.
But they aren’t clickbatey enough for commercial news.
But kWh/kg doesn’t account for additional energy sinks or drive train efficiency
Sure, for a specific car, but Samsung isn’t making cars, just a battery that could go in a number of different vehicles. So all we’re really able to compare is batteries, not full vehicle efficiency.
If they’re intending to suggest this new battery, when fitted in an existing EV (say a Model Y) would result in a 600 mile range, then it’s interesting, but all other things (drivetrain, drag, vehicle weight) would have to remain constant.
Miles
Metric
Pick one 😂
Metric = a measurement, not the metric system.
@programming.dev
Makes sense
It’s not stupid if it takes hours instead of minutes to charge up. If this tech really delivers, then I’ll be more than ok with a 200 miles battery that charges in 3 minutes.
Eh, it’s really not that dumb assuming there’s an average electric discharge for electric vehicles. Most laypeople don’t understand kWh beyond “bigger number better”.
Want a stupid metric? How about miles per gallon
It’s what people care about.
An EV that can only travel 300 miles on a charge is a complete nonstarter for me. It’s simply not enough for trips I take with regularity.
How so, I’m curious? Do you drive into no mans land hundreds of miles away from civilization or are you a robot that never needs to take a break?
That’s a 3 hour drive into the mountains, and running out before I get back. It’s not a long trip.
But, yes, stopping on a road trip is also a massive issue, and turning a 5 minute stop once a day into 20 3 times a day (on the limited routes where there are charging options) on an actual long trip would also be a dealbreaker by itself.
I don’t know how remote your mountains are, here there would likely be a charge point less than 50km away but I don’t know where you drive. I give you that.
Your second point though, you might want to reconsider your driving habits. Random google result for breaks when driving: “If driving long distances, you should stop for at least 15 minutes every two hours. Stop often to rest for at least 45 minutes every 4.5 hours of driving to avoid getting tired and stay alert. Plan to stop for a break every 100 miles on your long road trip so that you can relax. Try to only drive for 9 hours a day.”
If there was a charge point within 50 miles I wouldn’t want to be there.
A five minute stop once for gas is already more than too much of a waste of time. I absolutely will not throw away hours a day for no reason.
But it it’s stupid because it doesn’t really relate to anything. Different cars have different ranges with different sized batteries and different efficiencies, at different weights and different volumes, so I have no idea what it means.
Wouldn’t it be both more straightforward and more meaningful to phrase it like: x% more power for the same weight as current LfPO used in Tesla standard range
Most importantly, batteries will always be expensive, so most manufacturers will prefer fewer/smaller for a cheaper and lighter car of similar range. Aside from trucks, I don’t see why we’d ever see many 600mile range EVs, especially if we get truly fast charging
But people don’t care about that. They care “how far can x car go with it”.
I will never even consider buying an EV that can’t go a minimum of 500 miles on a charge. I’m not willing to have short weekend trips held hostage by the availability of charging stations. 500 miles is still not a long round trip.
But most ICE vehicles won’t go nearly that far on a tank of gas, they seem to most commonly go a bit over 300. Why should EVs be any different? Many of them already claim a similar range.
The difference is the ubiquity of gas stations. That infrastructure was built out over a century, and we need to do similar with chargers but ten times as fast
My car is a hybrid that goes 550 on gas without being plugged in. I’m not willing to go below that.
The ubiquity of gas stations is exactly the point. Less populated areas aren’t going to add charging stations, and even if they did, fast charging still sucks.
Even with a 10-15 mins recharge? A couple of times a year I do make a 500 mile journey and if there wasn’t a sea in the way I would happily do it all in one sitting. But as a teeny tiny compromise I wouldn’t mind stopping to charge once or twice along the way! It would add about 20 mins to the journey sure, but seems like it’s worth the benefits to me.
I don’t think you would get to the charger in 20 minutes. Assume there will be line.
I don’t go places where recharging is an option.
The long trips are ones where I’d be turning one 5 minute stop into at least an hour of stops per day. That’s not a small compromise any more.
You drive a full day with only one five minute stop? I think taking regular breaks is recommended when driving for long periods.
Absolutely. A stop is lighting time on fire. It turns a tedious experience into a completely unbearable one.
You joke but I literally pictured a super long battery for a solid bit before it clicked. I was thinking maybe it was coiled and technically really long like a spool of wire
Technically …… assuming cylindrical, it’s a long strip of metal rolled up. Not that long though
20 years is very nice, how recyclable are they after that though?
Who cares that’s ages away /s
But really, who cares. Landfills are a negligible amount of land usage and land used for them can be repurposed after closing the landfill. As long as you bury it enough to keep it out of the biosphere the environmental impact of not recycling is negligible. Recycling is preferable for lowering resource extraction sure but as long as its still more resource efficient than a gas car that’s irrelevant.
To me this is the same as oil industry propaganda over wind turbine blades not being recyclable, like oh no it’ll occupy a few cubic yards of a landfill in 15 years, better build a new coal/gas plant instead.
The process for recycling solid state batteries is more complicated at the moment:
There are companies that claim to be ready to recycle most car batteries, but there are just not many old ones yet
