- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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…to the surprise of absolutely no one.
The report cites inexperienced workforce, exacerbated by the limited pool to hire from in New Orleans and the non-competitive wages Boeing offers compared to other aerospace companies. Mobile and Huntsville are right there. Lol, pony up, Boeing.
And the report mentions operators are given work instructions that lack detail and require the operator to go diving through multiple levels of specifications and historical records to understand what to do. This speaks to inadequate manufacturing engineers and processes, who are putting out the inadequate work instructions. So I’m assuming the non-competitive pay and retention problems apply to their engineers too, not just the hourly operators and mechanics.
Work for Boeing for bad pay and to see this shit in the news? Or hop over to Mobile, AL to work for Airbus at a better wage on a popular commercial plane with good reliability and a good reputation. Decisions, decisions.
the report mentions operators are given work instructions that lack detail and require the operator to go diving through multiple levels of specifications and historical records to understand what to do
Damn, That’s a red flag for anything that flies. I imagine their compliance checklists during assembly are a mess.
I work in automotive as an engineer and that would be a red flag in our industry too. Our safety standards are only a fraction as strict as aerospace for obvious reasons (we’re not shooting cars through the atmosphere at the speed of sound!), but we’d never get away with this with the amount of audits and accountability that we’re held to. This whole saga is absolutely insane.
And then there Tesla with masking tape, dish soap, and 2x4s lmao.
Ah, but Tesla is really an AI company that happens to sell cars.
- 🪄Musk as he waves away the auditors
Hmm, space is a little different because so many products are one-offs. It’s hard to design checklists and detailed procedures when you’re making what are essentially prototypes each time. So you make more general processes and then your engineers apply them as needed to each unique build. It can end up looking like a bit of a mess. Space builds rely a lot on expert techs, good modular documentation, and multiple layers of engineering oversight because things change along the way and you can’t always plan for it.
I’m a process engineer at a different aerospace company. I standardize as much as I can and work hard to make instructions clear but man it’s a struggle. Boeing’s space group needs to pay people enough to retain good talent, because they’re all making decisions all day long.
Bold assumption that someone has written good, comprehensive checklists. Sounds possible if not likely that they’re underpaid and under supported too.
non-competitive pay and retention problems apply to their engineers too
Bruhh this is how it is pretty much everywhere… The thing his is even employee is competent but so many times being told your labour ain’t shit, you don’t deserve money for it … How many times of no raise will a good worker take before either changing jobs or just doing work that the wages covers.
About time these" leadership" got exposed for their looting
This is the utopia of capitalism.
Oh, agreed. And partially why I mentioned Boeing getting smeared in the news in my statement too. Pay means a lot but it’s not everything. Good managers and work a person can be proud of goes a long way.
Space industry attracts a ton of passionate people who would stick around to do cool things for mediocre pay. But not if the pay gets too low and/or when the work is not something to be proud of.
E g., I’ve already got a mediocre paycheck, why accept a mediocre paycheck and the grief of a worsening reputation. Someone currently at Boeing for mediocre pay can find another mediocre job elsewhere but it will still be better because the new company isn’t getting dragged in front of Congress for killing people to save money.
Just like their planes
most of Boeing’s own employees who literally put the fucking planes together said that they wouldn’t fly on these planes themselves
Jesus Christ.
They did another documentary years prior on the 737 NG, equally damning.
Thanks for the recommendation
…there are no rules in space
That’s objectively wrong
True, I head theres no takesie backsies in space
I mean, who’s going to come after you and arrest you in orbit? ISS could declare a mutiny right now and NASA would be powerless until they ran out of supplies.
Once self-sufficient settlements are a thing, that’ll be an even bigger question.
In a not so shocking comment, Boeing is run by an unqualified management.
Sounds like Boeing is being run by an unqualified work force
That’s how you squeeze profits from a good company and turn it to shit. That’s the capitalist nazi way!
The US is just collapsing everywhere. What a time to be alive.
Well Boeing is just overall imploding…
Boeing is just a symptom of the rampant corporate greed and irresponsibility that modern MBAs teach as part of normal daily operations.
It affects everyone, makes everyone less safe and less secure. Enshittification on a world scale brought to you by Next Quarter Only bottom line capitalism.
But the powers that be are fine with it for now, mainly because of class war.
I taught business ethnics for MBAs when i was in graduate school.
The only ‘ethics’ they learned was ‘maximize shareholder value at any price’. They spent an entire semester learning to to argue why murdering people and abusing people was morally justified as long as the share price goes up. That was the curriculum. Nothing else mattered.
If humanity survives this with our records intact, future historians will put a huge chunk of the blame on that mentality.
It really started with Dodge vs Ford, that codified the mentality as mainstream and we have paid the price for it every year since.
Holy shit. At this moment it really feels like Boarding just need to start at the top and fucking fire everyone involved with safety standards and manufacturing.
Hell no. FAA needs to realize what a disaster they’ve created by allowing self regulation of this industry and Crack down to a level that essentially strangulates a company like Boeing. Let them die and allow space for something newer with a quality and safety focus to grow. Saying they’ve fired people and put new people in won’t change anything. They’ll still slack on safety for profits.
Sadly getting something new and better will take decades and Airbus cannot handle the (airline) market alone. They also need to have a concurrent cause having an Airbus monopoly could make them sloppy on the long run. The C suite at Airbus are probably the first ones to want Boeing to survive as they know the trouble they’ll be in if they are alone.
Nah. The C suite would love it if they were the only game in town. Shareholder profits and stock goes through the roof. They don’t have competition so they don’t have to innovate or improve anything but profits. They get a HUGE bump in net worth and “retire” while still collecting their board approved stock options.
Yes the company would eventually kill a ton of people and might be shut down like Boeing, but “I got mine, fuck you”.
Yeah I’m not sure about that. Work culture, and even C suite culture, is very different in Europe.
Airbus publicly said they want Boeing to continue being a good opponent. The comments on this video talks a lot about working for one or the other manufacturer and the differences in the way people are treated.
Airbus is still lead by an engineer and not an accountant. That could change for sure but EU country won’t let it slip to a shit company as easy as it happened in the US, just because of our culture.
Worst case scenario, French, German, Spanish and other Airbus locations will go on strikes and riots if conditions are getting worse.
Of course a company would say that they don’t want a monopoly publicly. If it’s known they are, or want a monopoly, then they are more likely to fall in public favor and get hit with fines and legal action, hurting shareholder profits.
You have a lot of faith that capitalism won’t do a capitalism when the opportunity presents itself.
Yes Europe has a lot better hold against the evils of capitalism, but it’s still capitalistic.
Ah ah yes thanks I try to dream and be positive even if it’s sometimes dumb 😁
Another thing I forgot is that Airbus (and all EU aviation) are applying the HRO (high reliability organization) and just culture for a long time now.
I have read somewhere that Boeing started implementing just culture after the Max crashes, so very late. And apparently wrongly as some employees still fear repercussions if they make safety reports (and according to latest NTSB report 2 employees had been punish lately for that reason).
If true that is totally unbelievable.
The sad part is that will never happen in a timely manner as things stand currently, thanks to SCOTUS weakening the powers of federal agencies. The FAA should put their foot down, but it will likely get dragged out in legal battles over “the meaning of words like ‘safety.’”
Thomas Jefferson never added airplane safety regulations to the Constitution ergo, it’s completely unregulated. Also, Justice Alito would like to cite a man with tapestries tied to his arms as he jumped off a cliff in the 9th century saying of course it’s safe.
Sure the FAA needs to do this. We also need to fund the FAA and other regulatory agencies at the level they could. Whole towns in Texas have had large portions of them vaporized. Due to no proper OSHA and hazardous chemical safety handling inspection and accountability. And yes you read that right. Plural, it’s happened multiple times.
Often tens to hundreds of inspectors at most. Employed by these agencies are responsible for inspecting tens of thousands of sites each across several States because they are so under staffed and funded. And you want to guess who’s responsible?
Boeing was one of my accounts back before the pandemic. I had to respond to RFPs where my employer sold services to Boeing. They sucked to work with and just didn’t understand really basic things about the services they were requesting in their own RFPs.
Disney and Walmart on the other hand were great. They were not pushovers, but they were consistently friendly, and they always knew their shit.
imagine we find out Boeing really did build that submersible
The whole word, “No NASA, don’t send astronauts on Boeing equipment!”
NASA, ¯_(ツ)_/¯
¯\(ツ)/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You need 3 slashes for the right arm.
me when I don’t have proper fallback fonts installed:
This wouldn’t be a problem if we still had NASA doing the shuttle program, or some continuation of it, rather than outsourcing our spacecraft to the cutthroat lowest-bidder private sector. Is it really any surprise that SpaceX and Boeing are blowing up on the launchpads and having quality control issues when their sole objective is to make money? If we nationalized these initiatives again and cancelled the private contracts with these crooks, there would be no incentive for profiteering and corners would not get cut as often as they do now.
Sure, it would be a big cost to the taxpayer once again, but I think I’d rather have a reliable space program and like 2% less military budget to fund it, I think we’ll manage somehow without producing more tanks and planes that nobody is asking for.
There is a reason we moved this to the private sector. Govt bureaucrats can’t get out of their own way and every project triples in cost, with no single person calling the shots to get the job done. Govt cannot keep up with the pace we need.
Boeing is hot garbage.
SpaceX has a shit face, but they are incredibly competent and effective at iterating their way to space.
NASA blew up a fair few rockets, and lost two shuttles, so that’s not necessarily the better option.
Fair point, I don’t want to fixate on that one aspect of the colossal technical challenge that is getting spacecraft into orbit, but I’m still of the opinion that a nationalized and fully government-funded space program will always yield better results than a privatized one because there is no profit-taking incentive.
spacex was intended to blow up on launch pads
boeing was not intended to drop doors off of planes, ever.
There is a slight difference here.
At this point the government just needs to sue Boeing into bankruptcy. They cannot be allowed to continue to gamble with others’ lives while taking taxpayer money
lol boeing gets like half of their money from the government, I don’t see the government suing them anytime soon
Nationalize Boeing now
Gotta keep those shareholders happy!
