Trying to change the status quo
Super villains are usually trying to take over the world or rob banks and shit. That’s like saying Jeffery Dahmer was just trying to have a snack.
Moonraker is about a guy who just wanted to save the trees
Off the top of my head the villain in one of the Iron Man films was opposed to US war crimes and imperialism, New New Spider Man 1 had the Vulture as a villain whose deal was Stark and the wealthy were screwing people over.
In Batman Begins 3 Bane is a pastiche of anarchism/anti-capital ideas until revealed that that’s a play by Talia.
Well intentioned extremist is a pretty common villain trope in general.
Vulture was a victim, but he responded by selling alien tech weapons to criminals. His response has nothing to do with changing the status quo.
I thought he gave some villain speech about getting his gang and people like them what they deserved and bringing down Stark and Co. But I could well be mistaken or misremembering since I only saw it once, quite some time ago so you may very well be right.
Maybe he did, but is it for the sake of changing the status quo or for vengeance and making money? I also need to rewatch it to make sure, but he sure seem like the only thing he cares about is his own family.
Or maybe both?
As was detailed by someone else the Doylian reason why heroes don’t change the status quo is that people want to see our world in media, not a fantasy one and that this means only villains are allowed to want changes, but since the people funding the production of media tend to be invested in the status quo status quo changing ideas tend to be flanderised and done by people who do evil and selfish acts to reinforce standard morality.
I went through all the comments here and I can’t find where someone said an example of the super villain just trying to change the status quo. Yet lots of arguing back and forth.
That was good, tnx
Yeah, sure, Doctor Octavius was creating a revolutionary nearly infinite source of power.
In the middle of fucking Manhattan in the form of an all consuming Miniature Sun.
I mean weren’t they in the middle of NYC when Captain America got microwaved in that tube?
That sort of whataboutism doesn’t excuse the actions of villains. Also, he was a volunteer and they probably didn’t know it would explode.
Was there a reason it had to be in Manhattan and not like, fuckin Idaho or something?
Based
Supporting read arguing the superhero Ego versus villain Id: https://davidgraeber.org/articles/super-position/
This is great.
That’s the joke/point in many comics and comic book movies, too.
Subversive ideas can’t always be communicated openly in children’s media.
I think the world is a better place for having difficult disruptive ideas voiced in children’s movies, even when they’re only allowed to come out of the mouth of the bad guys.
Is this a normal thing in comic book movies?
No, it’s not at all. This is total nonsense. If anything, superheroes are usually persecuted by the government.
Spider-Man specifically is literally an outlaw.
And look at the X-Men. Half the time the gov wants to wipe mutants out.
Maybe you can say that about Captain America, but he was created to defeat the Nazis. So yeah, who the fuck is not on the government side in this situation?
And when the gov became corrupt, Captain America became an outlaw.
So whoever is upvoting this and whoever created this doesn’t know much about Marvel or comics.
I mean I don’t know that much, but I know the bare minimum to know this is nonsense.
I’ve honestly begun to judge people that still watch and enjoy these comic movies.
Oh no! People enjoying something you don’t! It’s a travesty, and must be stopped!
Yeah! How dare they admit that they judge people for petty reasons. You’re supposed to keep that shit to yourself!
Judging you right now.
And I’m sorry you have to worsen your life by doing so. It’s not healthy to be so negative.
I can guarantee virtually zero negative repercussions by holding this opinion. On the other hand, it seems to have really affected you and others.
It must really bug you to see so many people being happy while you stay depressed and despondent.
They’re “depressed and despondent” because they judge comic movie fans? This is some prime Dr. Phil level psychology right here.
This recent poll is starting to make more and more sense, the more y’all talk.
Can you name one superhero movie that follows the plot of the OP comic?
The closest I can think of is Thanos killing half the people in the universe and the heroes trying to stop him. You’re on Thanos’s side?
None and all of them. The video has been posted before but the essence is that the overwhelming part of Marvel’s films deals with the folloing scenary:
Bad guy tries to change something, often for legitimate reasons. God guys stop bad guy and everything stays the same. Even when people try to change something in a good way there is always something that goes horribly wrong.
The hypothesis falls apart when the author ties the real world problems of poverty, injustice and ecological disasters to the superheroes negligence.
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The premises of the movies are that they are grounded in the real world. As such if superheroes transformed the world it would no longer be a recognizable setting for movie audiences.
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2 hours of showing Iron Man digging wells in Africa isn’t entertaining.
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The ability of an individual, even if superpowered, to change society is extremely limited. We have the example of Bill Gates having spent decades and tens of billions just to irradicate a single disease. What is Captain America going to do to control health care costs? Beat cancer cells in a petri dish?
2 hours of showing Iron Man digging wells in Africa isn’t entertaining.
It’s basically like that recurring criticism of Batman “Why doesn’t he just use his money to make the world a better place instead of putting on a costume and beating up poor people.”
The answer, of course, being that he does both, but the former doesn’t really make for fun storyline by itself, so it’s always a side-plot or passing reference instead of being the main story beat.
- Grounded in the real world really stretches the trope when you consider there to be countless planets of hyper advanced beings and demi gods.
It’s always seemed strange to me that earth never made any sort of meaningfull technological progress despite having access to a galaxy full of new tech. The only progress we see is that the ~~ elites~~ heroes equipment is getting more fancy with each movie.
Secondly why should a more technological advanced setting be unrecognizable to the viewer? Especially if the progress stretches over as many movies as the MCU contains?
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No one is asking for painstaking detail. James Bond defeating a guy who tries to privatize the water supply of a whole country was overall a decent movie IMO, only implying the problem for everyday people that arose from evil guys plan. It’s all about the storytelling: Avengers find cool new tech that helps solve some earthly problem. Some people stand to lose a lot of money (think pharma industry becoming obsolete or similar) and plot against it. Avengers snuff out the plot, defeat evil mastermind and implement technology. Progress!
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Maybe there are certain problems that can’t be solved by punching things? Like for example finding a way to timetravel in order to collect the infinity stones, which Toni Stark seems to be able to do while sipping his afternoon coffee. Individual impact has never been a problem in the MCU. After all we are talking about a superhero movie. And what does Captain America do while Toni Stark eradicates Cancer? Deal with the backlash (see 2.).
Also, going back to your first remark: Superheroes dealing with poverty and injustice is the whole subplot of Black Panther.
Some people stand to lose a lot of money (think pharma industry becoming obsolete or similar) and plot against it. Avengers snuff out the plot, defeat evil mastermind
That was the plot of Ironman. Stark wanted to end weapons development. Stain stood to loose money.
And nothing really changed. Yeah, Stark Industries doesn’t produce weapons anymore. But as we see in Iron Man 2 others are happily trying to fill the gap.
It’s always seemed strange to me that earth never made any sort of meaningfull technological progress despite having access to a galaxy full of new tech.
This actually seemed reasonable to me - if alien tech is anything like ours, we lack the parts to make the parts to make the parts to make the tech, so we can’t mass produce any of it yet. And we’re a bit of a backwater - what resources we do have of galactic interest (vibranium, maybe?) isn’t for sale. So we make do with what scraps do find their way to earth.
Sure, jumping multiple levels on the technology tree is not easy, but a real world analog would be China, which has turned from a “backwater” to one of the biggest competitors.
… because they have access to the materials.
I feel like you just ignored the major factor in their statement because it conflicted with your point of view.
Secondly why should a more technological advanced setting be unrecognizable to the viewer
An Ironman cartoon addressed it a little by having Stark install his reactors everywhere for free clean energy.
But really it’s because people go to a Marvel movie to see their comic books as live action, not watch another Star Trek movie.
Because that’s the result of actual God level superhero intervention. Full Luxury Gay Space Communism. There’s nothing for a friendly neighborhood Spiderman to do. *
Yeah, except most of the Star Trek movies are more akin to the Marvel movies than they are the Star Trek shows.
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It’s a bit stretched, but… Watchmen perhaps? Kind of? Nothing closer comes to mind.
Oh watchmen for sure but it’s also about how bullshit the status quo is and how a crazy man can still fuck up the smartest plans by keeping a diary.
I don’t watch them, because I don’t enjoy Disney spoonfeeding me low effort, regurgitated swill on the quarterly.
So you… object to the idea of what you think the movies are like, to the point that you have no idea what they’re like?
… And that sounds reasonable to you?
So you’d continue to watch snuff porn to be sure you’re well informed on the subject?
Oh wow! You’re so much better than all of us!
You prefer doling your own out on internet forums?
Infinity War was the peak of MCU and it was downhill from there. And DC has been very inconsistent.
Yeah they are just not good. Same as star wars. I would maybe except the first Iron Man, Logan, and the original trilogy (before Lucas remade them with CGI).
The story telling is lazy, the characters undifferentiated, and there are no real consequences to anything. It’s just obvious money grabbing because media consumers have no taste or ability to distinguish good art from bad. T
They used to be good years ago. Then they mostly became like you said. It’s almost like the owners changed and promoted incompetent people to make bland, inoffensive movies with political messages
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