Woke basically applies to the bigots just realizing and getting worked up by things that had existed for decades. Either they’ve been dozing off for decades or have been “woken” up to it by propaganda with political undertones, and neither speaks highly of their mental faculties.
Although the thing about The Elder Scrolls in general is that it doesn’t hand hold you, so you are free to be a racist bigot and not realize it. They don’t force realization onto the player, you can happily adopt and become a tool of the point they are trying to criticize, you can willfully remain as ignorant as you would be in real life. In contrast to Starfield, where all companions are like the borg, of one mind telling you or nudging you into what you should have actually done.
Unfortunately what I really think is happening/happened with “woke hate” is manipulation for political gain as you mentioned with propaganda.
These people couldn’t care less before, other than the religious zealots that would crusade against anything “gay.” The political right (I really believe this started in earnest in the US) found a pressure point to use that puts them in direct opposition to what their political adversary aims to achieve (acceptance of all people for who they are). As it stands in the US the right operates almost entirely based off of “whatever the left aims for, make it appear evil. Always oppose all that they do.” as opposed to having specific goals of their own other than “shower the wealthy with benefits, remove all barriers to retaining the entirety of profits.”
Steve Bannon recently aimed their manipulation at what he described as “rootless white men” through the lense of gaming and societys affect on games/movies. Ever since that started there’s been an “explosion” of “this game woke?” discussions in Steam discussion fourms and in regard to movies. Before this manipulation these people just wouldn’t care and if anything you’d just see the odd person here or there complain about 2 guys kissing in a specific scene or something. They are made to be even more angry now because they’re made to believe it’s an affront to them and an attempt to manipulate them and society… Which is “funny” because they are being manipulated, just not by gaming/movie media.
Yeah the real reason they’re doing this cultural stuff is that they need a distraction from the fact that their material/economic platform is becoming more and more unpopular every year. So the anti woke/anti immigration frenzy must continue
Dem politicians should point this out more, but their economic program isn’t very popular either. I miss Bernie :(
I’d buy that
But how many times and on how many platforms?
All of them
Todd Howard wants to know your location
Isn’t all Daedric Prince genderless? They just assume the form they like, some are just a pile of tentacle.
In a literal sense, yes. But they present themselves as male or female usually. So it’s still appropriate to refer to Boethia as “genderfluid” because they send to switch it up.
I guess that makes most of them gendered but sexless? I mean, sexless in a biological sense, particularly given that they’re not biological beings, but it’s also funny to imply that Vaermina simply never gets laid
They’re literally all-powerful gods that reign over their own worlds that are quite possibly the same size as, if not bigger than Nirn. They don’t play by our rules. I don’t think we can apply our conventions of sex and biology to them lol.
As I said: they can be whatever the fuck they want.
They’re literally all-powerful gods that reign over their own worlds
Kind of but not really. Their “worlds” are just their true bodies. They are all-powerful in the sense that you are all-powerful compared to the bacteria living in your gut, which is to say that they’re not really. They have entirely finite power even within and over their own domains.
See: the Champion of Cyrodiil (in addition to teams of entirely normal people) invading Dagon’s Oblivion gates and shutting them down. An all-powerful god would simply vaporize you the moment you tried to oppose him in his domain. Or forcibly convert you into a warrior of his armies. Or instantly transform all your bones into breadsticks and laugh as you cronched into a pile on the floor–but don’t worry, he decided not to give you permission to die. Enjoy being a breadcrumb puddle.
that are quite possibly the same size as, if not bigger than Nirn.
Kind of a misunderstanding of the cosmology. Nirn is a finite round planet floating in (something equivalent to) space. The planes of Oblivion are infinite planes forced into the rough appearance of round planets by mortals whose minds can’t comprehend infinity. They’re not comparable to Nirn because they aren’t even a similar type of cosmic structure, they only appear similar through the very limited eyes of mortals.
I don’t think we can apply our conventions of sex and biology to them lol.
This is definitely true though. I’m personally in the school of thought that Daedric Princes aren’t really people the way that, for example, the Tribunal’s components are, or for a real world example the way the Greek gods are. The Daedric Princes are concepts personified, or maybe even concepts forced into an anthropomorphic shape by uncomprehending mortal eyes, the same way the Planes of Oblivion will appear like finite round planets from afar.
Mehrunes Dagon isn’t, I would argue, a guy who likes to destroy things. Mehrunes Dagon is destruction. He’s not a bad guy because he’s not a guy at all. Mehrunes Dagon enacts destruction and change the same way a hurricane does–not purposefully, not with malice, not even consciously in the same way a human can. Mehrunes Dagon simply, the same way you or I breathe, destroys.
That isn’t to say that they are all the concept of their spheres. Hypothetically destroying Mehrunes Dagon wouldn’t remove the concept of destruction from the universe. But Mehrunes Dagon is the being representing–made of, perhaps–that concept as it exists in the foundation of the universe.
The universe which I might add is a song, dreamt by the unimaginable and inconceivable higher-dimensional godhead. But that’s a topic for nerds nerdier than I.
Fair points! I was being somewhat hyperbolic. Compared to us, they are all-powerful, but, they are not in the grand scheme.
I couldn’t remember if the planes were infinite or not. But I knew they were at least their own worlds under the Daedra’s dominion.
One thing I do remember though is that Mehruns Dagon was actually created in Nirn by some of the Magna Ge before they peaced out. They created him because the Kalpa Nirn was in was being ruled over by an incredibly cruel and tyrannical race with no hope of change, so theh created the very embodiment of change, but realized too late they didn’t “install any brakes” so to speak.
And his name is
John CenaMahruns Dagon. So you’re right, he isn’t evil, it’s just in his nature to make things change. I don’t remember how he finally ended up banished from Nirn, but that’s why he believes Nirn is his by right, cause he was created there.You sure have Fudged Muppets in the past
No I’m just a nerd who reads a lot
I actually can’t stand fudgemuppet, dude takes 40 mins to say what could (and should) be said in 5
As an ES lore noob, I quite enjoyed their videos a few years back. I guess they could have shortened their videos a lot but explaining all the interconnectedness between characters and events and stuff I liked a lot.
Do you just read wikis or are there actually books to read about TES lore?
Morrowind is a basically the thesis of Things Fall Apart in video game form, with a good deal of Dune. It’s an examination of colonialism. Every detail of that game is dripping with politics. The Dunmer are racist and engage in horrific chattel slavery - but does that mean it is right for the Empire to colonize them and take their resources? There’s substantial evidence that your character is a spook sent to “fulfill” an indigenous prophecy to tighten the Empire’s control - is that morally right?
There’s also a hermaphrodite male presenting god who has had hundreds of children with something quite close to the Devil.
Somebody has been hitting the moon sugar a little too hard.
Good, now make it gayer!
Bro, same for Star Trek
In short, exactly how it was and how it should be.
🎶 🎵 How it is, and of course how it could be. 🎵 🎶
I miss the time when people realized that fiction, even if possibly metaphoric, is ultimately not real.
I miss TrueSTL
We can do better. TrueSTL had a lot of “joking” real racism IMO.
I remember there being jokes that seemed like they were drawing parallels between TES racism and IRL racism (like how the Dunmer like calling non-dunmer “N’wah”, which sounds suspiciously like “n-word” if you slur the words as you say them) or making fun of racism in the series. I don’t remember TrueSTL using jokes to actually make fun of IRL minorities though.
I could be wrong, it’s been a while, but I don’t remember seeing anything that came off as being intentionally malicious. I will also concede, however, that there were definitely things that might come off that way to a passerby with no TES lore knowledge.
That’s true, I just interpret “huh yuk I can mean the N word with this one weird trick” as racism. When the orcs are loud and boorish, that’s fine. When they love fried chicken and watermelon, it’s clearly a proxy.
Yeah, yanno I think that’s a fair interpretation. I don’t fully agree with it, but I can see your logic. I will say that, now that you mention the orc thing, I think I seeing something like that once and I think I remember the OP getting a warning for it being too real (I have a vague memory of seeing something like that and thinking, “okay, that’s too far, that’s not funny anymore” and then seeing a mod warning in the comments). It seemed like most of the users knew where the line was and tried to avoid stepping over it, but again, it’s been a while since I last bothered to look at Reddit (at least a year I think, maybe two), so I could be misremembering or things could have changed, etc.
Is the crusader gay?
Yes. Also a cyborg.
“They would have made it woke” is the dumbest fuckin attitude to take
I have been mistaken in this case
Sounds like you gotta brush up on your elder scrolls lore my dude. You completely missed the joke that TES was always “woke”.
I suspected but you never know
My bad
Dude, you gotta check out elder scrolls lore, it’s fucking wild. The world runs on clockwork, vivec gave molag bal sloppy toppy while his toppy was sloppy (he was headless), the lizards lick trees to become argonians which are wifi-enabled (the Hist trees can remotely control argonians, which meant shit got real during the Oblivion Crisis and Mehrunes Dagon, a fucking daedric prince pissed himself in fear when he tried to invade the Black Marsh), there are like, 72 1/2 forms of khajiit, it’s heavily suggested that the elder scrolls is a post-apocalyptic fantasy game…
Also, every race in the elder scrolls has had a space program. The khajiit space program was literally just them standing on each other’s shoulders to reach space.
Oh yeah. And the dragon breaks. When time and space just kinda fuck up and every possible outcome happens at the same time before settling onto a single thread (in-universe explanation for why there’s one canon ending to each game despite players being able to get other endings; each game takes place during a dragon break).
it’s heavily suggested that the elder scrolls is a post-apocalyptic fantasy game
I distinctly recall a conversation I had on reddit in which I irritated several Fallout fans by insisting that the Elder Scrolls is simply Europe in the world of Fallout and that the Chinese stealth suits were 100% chameleon enchanted gear from TES IV
If you want more post-apocalyptic fantasy, Mistborn and Stormlight Archive book series both technically fit
The mental image I have of the Argonians all turnt on hist sap, invading Oblivion, making Daedra Lords piss themselves, and closing their own gates, makes me happy.
That’s almost literally how it went down, except the Argonians weren’t tripping, the Hist trees are literally psychic and recalled all the Hist-born Argonians to the Black Marsh. They somehow knew the Oblivion Crisis was about to occur, and recalled every single Hist-born Argonian in Tamriel so that they’d be waiting at the gates the moment they appeared.
The Hist trees are also speculated to be the oldest living beings on Tamriel, if not Nirn entirely.
The Hist trees recognize Sithis as the OG creator. (If I understand correctly) To put it another way, while other races worship Aedra and/or Daedra, the Hist trees basically worship the void itself.
The Hist-born Argonians are able to use a wholly unique form of magic called Hist-magic which operates under its own, separate rules. This scares the elves.
Even worse, imagine how woke the books of Karl May (not to be confused with Karl Marx) the most successful German author of all time that were originally published in book form in the 1890s [sic] would be if they came out today:
The foreword to the main trilogy would be so spicy that no modern English translation would include it. Like: He would call out the genocide of the native Americans as such and explicitly assign the full guilt for the decline of their cultures to the whites.
He would have the author-self-insert heroes telling people that use the N-word that “Once they scrape you into the ground, your white-skinned body will become straight and exactly as much a stinking carcass as a negro corpse. You will admit that, and now have the goodness to list your other merits!”
He would have trans coded characters being presented in an unambigously positive light.
And so many more incredibly woke things, like trash talking Christians that don’t respect all other humans and do evil shit…
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I wish all representation was done as well as when it was done out of creative choice rather than trying to win progressiveness points
It’s kinda weird to try to include representation without it feeling shoe horned. The world of TES (of any fictional world) is entirely hand-created. There are no accidents, all of it is intentional.
This means that, no matter how it’s done, any character deviating from the “norm” was consciously chosen to be so. These things that need representation (disabilities, gender identity, sexuality, race, etc) are all things people don’t get to choose, so there’s an inherent disconnect between the hand crafted world choosing to include diversity, and the real world necessarily having diversity because of chaos.
Following this thread, there’s never been a case of inclusivity, or exclusivity, that isn’t shoehorned in. It’s always been entirely the will of the author to include or exclude these representations. With that in mind, I think it’s only a good thing to see more diverse authors bringing more diverse worlds and characters into existence.
It only feels shoe horned when they don’t write the character well.
There are a lot of cases where the person isn’t allowed to have any flaws or character development because they’re too scared to make them look bad in any way, which also means none of their achievements feel earned. Ohers where they just don’t care enough to waste screen time on things that aren’t highlighting whatever group they’re a part of
Have been a fair few shows I’ve seen where they’ve done it right, recently Kaos had a trans character who actually felt like a human being instead of a token “hey look we have a trans person”
The recent doctor who special is one of the bad examples, most of the time the woman in a wheelchair is onscreen it’s because they’re drawing attention to the wheelchair (oh no, a ladder, oh no a set of stairs etc etc) and not to develop her character in any way besides that
