This is not my personal opinion, I know Gen Z men who voted for Harris. But the voter demographics really speak for themselves, and maybe now people will look at the radicalization of young men as a serious (but solvable) issue.
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There is a lot to be said here. I’ll use my own experience as an example.
I’m a millennial male who had a terrible time as a young adult through my mid 30s. I grew up in a fairly religious/conservative area of the US, and I didn’t have the ability to even start questioning that before my college years because literally everyone I knew was either a vocal supporter of or tacitly accepted that cultural status quo. Mental health issues were either not discussed or not recognized in any serious fashion. It wasn’t until my late 20s that I finally understood that I had severe depression and anxiety and sought help, despite suffering from it since my early teenage years.
Socially, I never felt like I was cool enough or good enough. I didn’t understand women, and the endless series of rejections and confusing encounters only served to erode my low self confidence further. I had no idea what a healthy relationship looked like because my parents were just going through the motions at that point, and the relationships I saw in TV shows and movies were incredibly shallow. The few people I considered friends did not support me in any positive way. I eventually kicked them to the curb, preferring solitude to being the butt of their jokes.
I was a prime target for recruitment for the alt-right: depressed, alone, disaffected, and ready to lash out. The only thing that kept me from going in that direction was a keen sense that the rhetoric was bullshit and its leaders only cared to take advantage of the rank-and-file to accumulate money and power. Many people I knew were not so perceptive and became victims of that movement.
My only saving grace was that I had a decent job with healthcare benefits, which allowed me to get the therapy I needed to overcome these challenges. Again, most people I knew did not have such resources. Nearly a decade later, I am now a family man with a wife and child. I am far happier than I have been at any other point in my life. Despite that, there is still plenty I don’t understand. I don’t have a good grasp of what positive masculinity looks like. I cannot point to anyone who has served as a good, male role-model in my life. I still don’t have any close male friends with whom I can share my feelings and challenges.
However, I do understand how easily young men can be swayed to far-right crusades. Social media warped my view of reality, and it’s far worse now than it was 10-15 years ago. Moreover, there is no alternative to far-right echo chambers for young men to commiserate and get help. Those spaces simply do not exist on the left. If you dare to complain or vent, you will immediately be told your problems don’t matter and called a misogynist. I can readily call multiple conversations I had with liberals and feminists who rejected my problems, even being told that I was “living life on easy mode” because I was a man.
For all the women who are reading this, I get it. As a man, I don’t have to worry about the government meddling in my bodily autonomy. For the most part, I don’t have to worry about walking alone at night or being accosted or raped. I don’t have to worry about being taking seriously at my job or being passed over for promotions because of my gender. However, none of that negates the challenges that young men are facing. Their gender does not save them from broken homes, abuse, mental health issues, a bad job market, degrading standards of living, student debt, double-standards, confusing and contradictory narratives surrounding dating and relationships, etc. Yes, privileged men with no right to complain do exist, but they are an extreme minority. The vast majority of young men are in a bad place, and the only people reaching out to help have ulterior motives. If you want things to change, try having some empathy. Maybe you will get empathy for your problems in return.
This. Men are more often victims of violent crime, homelessness, mental illness, suicides, do worse in school, incarceration, die in wars, work dangerous jobs. Classic male institutions, structures, and spaces don’t exist anymore like they used to.
Add to that that men showing emotions is still seen as weakness.
These issues aren’t addressed or even mentioned.
Men are more often victims of violent crime, homelessness, mental illness, suicides, do worse in school, incarceration, die in wars, work dangerous jobs.
The victims of other men. That’s the joke of it all. And the folks screaming loudest about being victimized are inevitably the ones quickest and most eager to take their own pound of flesh at the first opportunity.
Add to that that men showing emotions is still seen as weakness.
Primarily among other men. This isn’t a gendered issue nearly so much as it is a socio-economic hierarchy. The “excess males” problem is what’s driving the violence, the poverty, and the declining health. Young men are pressed into the social hierarchy by their elders, often from an extremely young age, through physical, emotional, and sexual violence. They climb the social ladder by proving their tolerance for abuse by those above, while exhibiting a sufficient capacity for sadism on those below. Anyone who cannot endure the abuse and find their own cohort to abuse in turn becomes the social excrement that the system exudes.
This is literally “The Patriarchy” that feminists rant about and seek to abolish. But efforts to abolish the system invoke its most violent tendencies. The result is a youth population that is selected for the most sniveling and cruel to lead it into the next generation.
This entire comment is exactly the kind of lack of empathy that the gentleman was talking about.
Primarily among other men.
The worst I ever got for showing emotions in front of other men was being called sensitive. Women on the other hand dismissed me with fury, insulting my manhood and even hitting me.
They climb the social ladder by proving their tolerance for abuse by those above, while exhibiting a sufficient capacity for sadism on those below.
Where did you learn this fucking nonsense, gender studies?
The Patriarchy
Interesting name for it given how many men will tell you it is women upholding men’s gender roles. Men are still expected to pay for dates, to be able to support families, to have a home and a car before they’re even worth attempting to date…
When Terry Crews came out about his sexual assault. So many men publicly derided him. I felt so bad for Terry.
For the record, fifty cent, Vlad from VladTV, DL Hughley were those that made fun of Terry and some even insinuated he was possibly gay.
And if Feminists could differentiate between a homeless man down on his luck and a bigoted billionaire asshole, “The Patriarchy” would actually get fought, but they both have dicks and are therefore identical.
primarily among other men
Tell that to my ex lol
The patriarchy sucks for most men, that aren’t on the top. Their grievances are still legitimate and either ignored or belittled.
The men at the top maintain their position by deflecting the consequences of their exploitative policies onto the lower rungs of the ladder.
Primarily among other men
Studies show that the first person to start judging emotions in man are their mothers while they are kids, and fathers have little todo with that stigma
Don’t be shy. Drop that link. Curious to see your source.
Thanks for relating all that - lots of information but worth the read. You largely summed up my own early existence in the first few paragraphs. My therapy came in the form of getting involved in theatre, which exposed me to all kinds of people and ideas, revamped my attitudes and saved me from embracing radical ideas that are more or less based on rejecting a society that rejects you. I think that same cynicism is common in people from many different backgrounds, who share the same alienation for all kinds of reasons.
I’ll even add one - throughout my software career doing contract jobs, finding a new gig always took me 2-3 weeks and was very routine. When I turned 50 the 2-3 weeks abruptly and permanently became 2-3 months, and took a lot more effort. Apparently in that community I was suddenly too old. Only one recruiter let slip that age was the reason a potential client rejected me, but the sudden difference at 50 was stark. So I don’t know what you do for a living but you might be facing that yourself when it’s your time.
Anyway I totally agree about empathy. I don’t know what it is but people seem to be constantly on guard nowadays. Their go-to assumption is to look for evil and refuse to accept simple mistakes. That and permanently crucifying anybody who does anything morally unacceptable, or ever did in their past. If somebody Likes the wrong tweet it’s unforgivable and irredeemable. I don’t recall another time when so many people were so militant about this attitude. Forgiveness used to mean compassion, now it means you’re complicit, enabling, a shill, “just as bad,” etc. I think we need to think of the glass houses analogy and stop pretending to be morally impeccable.
there is no alternative to far-right echo chambers for young men to commiserate and get help
I feel like there’s an adjacent issue where any space like that without a clear political lean quickly gets pushed rightwards by shitters
ugh I remember my last straw on Facebook was my high school alumni group becoming a shit-storm of sea-lioning and a couple folks blocking people and also spamming nostalgia-posts to drown out and push down more serious discussion. A high school famous for it’s science-focus but alas, the older (but not much older) folks were openly commenting about that black-people-crime-percentage “statistic” and gay people.
That was a very thoughtfully written response. I can relate to a lot of your story and agree with your conclusions. There needs to be more outlets for men as an alternative to right wing communities. I hope you meet more liberals and feminists that are open-minded to men’s hardships. I have to believe there are more reasonable people out there on the left than not.
I have to believe there are more reasonable people out there on the left than not
There are, but online is where the psychopathic man haters feel free to let their colors fly. At union conventions and community meets, I only ever hear tame comments from the very obvious radfems.
I have to imagine if the democrats had not largely ignored these problems they would’ve won by a landslide
I’m a gen z male, raised in a far right Republican household. I’m a social democrat. I am progressive.
Unironically, congrats on breaking free of the brainwashing. I grew up in an insanely red rural area and a very conservative religious family, unlearning all that shit has been a decades long process (and still continues).
Same. I live on a ranch in a deeply red area. Voted Kamala. I’m also happy to say my conservative parents are ex-republicans.
I’m also a Gen Z male, raised in an evangelical household at a Christian school that supported Christian nationalism, and was supposed to be a strong conservative Christian but ended up turning into an atheist socialist instead. It’s kind of funny to read that Gen Z is going radical right when for me it was the opposite.
According to the voter demographics, you’re a minority there.
White women as a majority still voted for Trump. Why just blame men?
Alienation caused by economics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_alienation
Fascists have a message for them, the liberals don’t because they are committed to the current economic and political system
I can see why some young men might feel like the Democratic party is prioritizing women’s issues over those affecting men, especially young men. In fact, it might seem like the Democratic party is not only indifferent to struggling young men, but hostile to them. I can understand why someone might not want to vote for a party that thinks of them as deplorable, pathetic losers.
Issues affecting young women:
- Rapes aren’t prosecuted
- Government forced births
- Bleeding out in a parking lot
- Widespread misogyny
Issues affecting young men:
- Girls won’t put out
- There aren’t enough pickup trucks
- Joe Rogan is being victimized by jews
- Germ theory and masks or something
How exactly can a political party address what is for men essentially a collection of toxic culture issues?
I don’t disagree with your issues facing women. But your issues young men face is very disingenuous
Its disingenuous to the actual issues facing young men, but right on point for how people seem to see mens issues. It is in fact a perfect example of why men might just feel put upon by the left.
Nowhere in this thread has anyone discussed issues that exclusively affect men. There are very few such issues and all of them are trivial.
How exactly can a political party address what is for men essentially a collection of toxic culture issues?
I don’t necessarily know, and neither does the Democratic party, which is at least part of the reason why Trump just got reelected.
This is the exact kind of attitude they meant
Is there a visual representation of 3. being nailed to a cross for dramatization purposes?
Imagine if you reversed the roles there and said something like issues facing women: handbag not sparkly enough or some shit
There are real issues for both men and women. The fact people think otherwise is part is the root of the problem
But I would be lying.
Look, name an issue that exclusively affects men, and I’ll amend my list. So far, no one has come up with anything.
Mental health issues being ignored by their peers and society as a whole is a pretty big one
You could claim women have mental health problems too and they do but they have spaces to talk about that
So your claim is that “mental health issues” are an exclusively male problem? Because again, the problems I listed for women affect them exclusively.
So do you see what the problem is here?
EDIT: people that downvote this benign comment are proving me right. Braindead.
You ignored part of my message, I said the problem was that men’s mental health problems are largely ignored, not that women don’t have mental health problems
So to be clear, one of the main issues that men in this country face that women do not face is that “their mental health issues are ignored”?
Who is “ignoring” these mental health issues? There’s no systematic lack of access that needs to be legislated, correct? I had absolutely zero problem getting therapy as a man. It’s a toxic masculinity thing of men themselves being unwilling to see a therapist. Correct?
I blame social media and algorithms. My teen son for the longest time was leaning further and further right due to the content he was getting served on YouTube. He was making disparaging comments about women and how stupid they are. My wife and I who lean left had to sit down and have a talk with him about what he was saying and videos that he was getting served by YouTube (that popular red pill girl, I can’t remember her name and andrew tate among other red pill stuff). He’s a pretty smart kid, once we showed him data and articles that directly proved all the things he was watching wrong, he started to come around. He’s been careful to believe things that he sees or hears on the internet more now. Occasionally, he’ll bring things to us that we have to double take and fact check to see if it’s wrong.
Nice. I really can’t say much more but I will. Great oversight.
Man. I get being disappointed. I really do get it.
But tarring all these guys with “hitler youth” when just like every other group, at worst it’s a 45-55% split… Come on. That’s a hell of an insult to throw towards people, many of whom are doing their best and didn’t vote Trump. Doing your best, doing everything that you can do, and still being met with scorn… I know how bad that hurts. I know how it sucks the will right out of you. I know it drives people away. And even if it doesn’t drive them to Trump because they’re good people, it sure isn’t going to drive them towards finding a solution.
That’s a pretty ignorant way to overgeneralize about a whole generation. I hoped I was leaving this kind of bullshit behind on reddit.
Every flag-emoji in a user’s profile name is a red-flag for a different mental illness.
But this is pure scapegoating. Even the most straightforward read on the turnout demographics tells us where the problem is.
Trump won the White People.
Trump was expected to dominate the white vote. Hispanic voters were expected to be way more blue tho, especially after the recent “porto reeko” fiasco. I read that Hispanic males tended to prefer Trump but women liked Harris. The geography stats are unsurprising - more dems live in urban areas and more repubs in the smaller towns and wide open spaces. The huge surprise is that younger voters are so evenly divided. Maybe I’m just used to the constant noise on reddit that blames Trump on boomers. Now it will probably shift to “BuT ThEy GoT HiM StArTeD!”
Trump was expected to dominate the white vote.
Hmmm…
Just curious, do we get these breakdowns from exit polling or some other source?
I guess the lonelyness epedemic plays a part in it which hits younger people harder then older ones and mans stronger then woman.
Indeed, and it’ll get worse. Plenty of women (on popular dating sites, at least) have already been swearing off dating Republicans. Now, with a higher likelihood of a national abortion ban, don’t be surprised if straight women become even choosier. After all, every man we think of sleeping with must now also be viewed as a potential father.
Forget about casual flings or one-night-stands. Why would I risk a lifetime of supporting an entire human being just to have one night of fun?
And that’s only for straight women. Bisexual/pansexual women can choose to straight up stop dating men entirely.
In a lot of ways, lonely young men who voted for Trump just shot themselves in the dick.
You mean to tell me that using birth control or even practicing abstinence is the best way to avoid getting pregnant and removes the need to use abortion as birth control?!
And that perhaps having reckless one night stands all the time is risky and probably not a great idea?!!
PragerU was started to indoctrinate Gen Z when the realized the Millenials were Far Left and the Boomers were dying out
Mission Accomplished…
Because the Republicans succeeded at fully killing education. It’s dead.
Because the democrats haven’t made a serious appeal to them in a decade. We need to turn bell hooks into actionable political messaging.
Well go ahead, what’s the messaging/appeal that would have swung the Hitler youth away from Hitler?
I’m a Gen Z male, from what I can tell it seems like older generations tend to rely more on cable or traditional news outlets while younger generations tend to get their news from social media platforms like Instagram. Cable news tends to be more corporate and “normal”/consistent, while Instagram tends to feed news from a larger variety of sources that tend to be more anti-corporate and radical, but those sources also tend to optimize for very short bursts to get the point across quickly so the user can quickly move on to the next piece of news, and there’s also quite a bit of low effort content and reposts and misinformation and that sort of stuff. So I think it’s social media that’s the main driving factor in causing Gen Z to be more radical - which in some ways is a good thing since they have more awareness of the events in Palestine (and radical leftism is based), but the platform can also put them into far-right fear-mongering bubbles and cause serious problems.
Men have already long been abused by the patriarchy alongside with women. In the last couple of years the so-called “liberals” claiming to fight against the patriarchy have joined in the abuse by denying men any escape from that situation
the Democrats will just pander to this by getting an endorsement in 2028 from Andrew Tate.
My friend, do not speak this into existence 😭
