You must log in or register to comment.
i use linux and don’t have family or friends or get any kind of medical care ☺️ checkmate
Using Linux in America be like
The failures of the United States healthcare system are compatible with the Unix philosophy due to its emphasis on doing one thing poorly and leaving the rest for the user to figure out. Like Unix tools, each component—insurance, billing, and treatment—functions independently, refusing to communicate effectively while relying on the user to “pipe” themselves between endless calls, paperwork, and escalating bills. Debugging your health, much like debugging code, requires advanced knowledge, infinite patience, and a willingness to accept that nothing will ever be fully resolved.
And most servers do too.
God save ASP and .NET applications
I think people who say “I don’t care, I use Linux” are really saying “You should use Linux to stop this.”
I hate to be that guy, but they may not be aware of alternatives.
Yes. And whereas if you say “You should use linux” might get you downvoted and angry responsens, just saying “I use linux” does not.
But with enough repetition the people who care enough might eventually give Linux a try on their own time.Yeah but that misses the point.
Others SHOULD use Linux. We’ve been saying that for decades now and slooooowly people are learning. Stop down voting people for saying what everyone should be listening yo
What drives me nuts about this subject is rarely spoken about.
No single company can properly compensate all of their users for the damages caused by mishandling their personal data.
In fact the damages may even be too great for the government to properly compensate said users.
No single company can properly compensate all of their users for the damages caused by mishandling their personal data.
What do you mean? Every time I’ve been involved in a data leak, I got offered 6 months of identity monitoring. What more could you want?
My government forces a fingerprint on our id cards. I already lost. I can’t use my fingerprint anywhere for authentication because it’s not mine anymore.
I think there’s some confusion at play here. That argument is about security, not privacy.
Is the concern that Microsoft is ingesting your data and thus your actions aren’t private? Or is it that Windows is not secure and so you don’t think data stored in Windows systems is safe from third party access? That distinction matters, because in both cases the way it’s framed here isn’t really accurate but for different reasons.
And both arguments are valid. However, when discussing privacy with somebody “who has nothing to hide”, the security concerns argument usually holds more ground.
“Fine, you don’t mind microsoft and their 961 partners to know about your computer usage patterns. But how about the criminals which will have your data as well? You may trust microsoft with your data - “because they have it already” - but do you trust each of these 961 partners? Do you trust all their privacy policies? I have read some. They are horrendus and allow sharing with third parties. Do you trust their privacy and security?”
Well, for one, I have no information regarding MS keeping mandatory telemetry of Windows application usage or data (at least outside their own software suite). As far as I know what is there is opt-in and does not extend to keeping any copies of your computer data, which is the point where you’d be worried about something like your medical records. One of the reasons the Recall nonsense drew so much attention is that it was an unusual instance of something approximating that.
But the other side of your argument is a bit confusing, because it seems to be coming from the angle of… proselytism, I suppose? As in, what is more useful to convince somebody who doesn’t care about the privacy side that they should avoid Windows.
And to be clear, that’s not my goal, or at least not a goal I think is worthwhile in absolute or abstract terms, for its own sake. I’m not an OS activist, use whatever the hell you want and works for you. The closest I have is a distaste for Apple’s pricing and ecosystem-focused tactics but, man, that 600 bucks M4 Mac Mini is nice value, I’ll think about it.
On the merits of the argument, I’m not sure it tracks, either. If someone attacks a legitimate holder of your data the part I care about is how secure their data storage is (because, again, nobody is sharing your medical records over Microsoft telemetry gathering, that’s not a real thing).
I trust a third party’s security setup as far as I can throw it, I don’t care if it’s on Azure, Google, Amazon or a self-hosted Linux server. Hell, I may trust the self-hosted Linux server of a provider least of all of those. Not because of Linux, but because of the self-hosting.
Well, for one, I have no information regarding MS keeping mandatory telemetry of Windows application usage or data (at least outside their own software suite). As far as I know what is there is opt-in and does not extend to keeping any copies of your computer data
I’m not gonna start ranting about their mandatory telemetry, but I do gotta note this is a hell of an issue to ignore (considering the windows telemetry “opt-in” during setup boils down to “want us to take ALL your data, or just whatever we want?”). That aside, Microsoft’s setup process is imo designed to make people think exactly what you’ve written - the telemetry is the invasive part, and (*deep huff of copium*) maybe they won’t steal any of my juiciest data. I honestly think they deliberately made their telemetry prompts a little abrasive, so that anyone who gives half a shit about privacy will focus on that part and see it as the privacy violating aspect of a new windows computer or install.
Meanwhile, as soon as you’re logged in to your new windows OS your user folders have been stored in onedrive by default - so that all your documents, desktop, etc get sent straight to Microsoft. You can migrate all your files from your old pc - dump all those medical and tax records right in your documents, where they get sent straight out to Microsoft’s servers without ANY consent or even awareness from most users. Most windows users I talk to don’t even know anything’s up until they start getting warnings about using up all their onedrive storage, and by that point M$ has all their shit and the damage can’t be undone. Sure, you can move the folders back out of the onedrive path (good luck explaining how to anyone who isn’t tech savvy) and onedrive is “””end to end encrypted””” (which is a joke when M$ has the encryption keys), but the reality is they’ve deliberately made windows trick people into allowing their personal files to be stolen. Dark patterns like these are all throughout the OS, and they’re a big part of why the proselytism you mentioned absolutely is a worthwhile goal for its own sake. Using windows is choosing to engage with a manipulative and untrustworthy entity that’s actively hostile to your privacy, and the worst part is most people don’t even realize it IS a choice. Like most choices, it’s got pros and cons - knowing you have other options doesn’t mean you have to choose them, and if someone wants to keep using windows to play their kernel-level anticheat competitive games or something that’s fair enough. I just think they absolutely need to be aware of what their choice is costing them (and the people around them due to network effects) both for their own risk management and because you can’t truly make a choice without information. “OS activism” is the only hope to actually fix or even salvage this situation, lacking any government willing and able to meaningfully regulate tech companies.
You keep mixing up concepts, though.
Yes, MS embeds OneDrive into its OS in annoying ways. OneDrive sucks and that sucks.
But that’s not a security issue when you work with a company that uses Windows to handle your sensitive data. If the company you’re working with is using a default Windows image that accidentally stores your sensitive, legally protected records in a default OneDrive that’s not a Windows issue, that’s an issue with giving your medical records to what seems to be an IT department run by somebody’s cousin who knows computers. If they aren’t savvy enough to avoid that issue they’re not savvy enough to keep your data secure in a Linux system either. And, once again, there is definitely no indication that OneDrive is systematically not secure or that data stored in it is being manipulated or accessed by Microsoft for commercial purposes. I mean, it’s widely used professionally, so I imagine if that was the case Microsoft would get sued to hell and back.
Does that mean I like Microsoft’s choice? Nope. I loathe OneDrive. As I kept telling MS in their annoying user surveys when I was forced to use it for work, it is the one piece of software that cost me the most hours of productivity, bar none, and I dropped it like a rock the moment I didn’t have a contractual obligation to use it.
But holy crap, that absolutely isn’t a valid reason why it’d be a security OR privacy problem that a vendor you use is running Windows.
And that’s the thing, you don’t need to equivocate, make up stuff or jumble concepts like this to point out the ways in which Windows’ implementation of things is sub-par. There are plenty of legitimate examples. Granted, may of those examples are definitely not dealbreakers and plenty of Windows users are aware of them and don’t particularly mind. Just like many MacOS users or Linux users don’t mind their own quirks. But the quirks and shortcomings do exist. You don’t need to make them up or be hyperbolic about them.
This just makes you sound paranoid and kind of unreasonable. It makes it easier to dismiss the legitimate arguments because man, a lot of that is clearly not a reasonable argument, so why would you assume some of it is?
To be clear, I’m not talking about the impacts of companies using windows at all - everything I said was meant in the context of an end user environment. Even more specifically, I’m only talking about privacy (never even used the word security) and I was replying only to where you mentioned their telemetry not affecting user data, to point out that they unapologetically steal user data separately from the telemetry. The data may be encrypted, and technically “secure” from other actors, but Microsoft holds the encryption keys so the only thing standing between them and your personal files you might believe are private is “pinkie promise we won’t look”.
Does this mean bill gates is personally browsing any random person’s photos libraries? Obviously not, but the fact that nothing technically prevents M$ from using the encryption keys (that they store for you) to unlock your “secure” data on their servers that you may not even know they’ve taken is absolutely something that anyone in that position should know. That’s putting significant trust in M$ - which again, many people in this position did not do and did not know they were forced to.
Hopefully this clarifies if it seemed like I was mixing up concepts - I’m tired as fuck and probably not as coherent as I’d like to be. Still, I don’t believe I’ve “made up” anything or even been hyperbolic - other than my pet conspiracy theory about their reasoning behind the setup process and telemetry prompt, everything I wrote is imo a verifiable fact and if you disbelieve any part of it I’m happy to provide sources. (Edited to add: later, right now I need sleep lol)
OK, but that’s not what the thread is about. The thread is about the OP arguing that end users shifting away from Windows is not a solution because companies and other users who interact with them are using Windows and that’s a vector that will compromise their data.
Which is not really a thing, as far as I can tell.
Also, no, it’s not “pinkie promise”, their data protection obligations are regulated (differently depending on where you are, but they are) and even in scenarios where you’re solely relying on their terms of service they may be liable if they are negligent about it. I don’t trust MS. I don’t trust any company. I do business with them and if they bone me as a partner or a customer I have whatever recourse my government’s regulations grant me.
I don’t need to be a digital prepper with every single picture of my dog secured by my own hand, personally. And even if I chose to be that guy, as the OP says, it’s a systemic problem. I shouldn’t have to rely on my own tech skills to secure my information, this should be a regulated space where normal people don’t need full end-to-end control to be kept reasonably safe. Yes, even when using Windows, or Android or whatever other service corporations are providing to them.
I disagree with your dismissal of windows’ security implications for companies, but to avoid mixing up concepts I’m focusing only on the end user privacy aspect.
And regulation, while worthwhile and something we should definitely be working on, is still functionally irrelevant in an environment where there’s realistically no way for anyone outside of M$ themselves to detect any violations. The plain facts are that M$ is fully capable of accessing end users’ private data without user consent or awareness (or even awareness that M$ has the data at all, in many cases). With no realistic way for them to be caught doing this, regulations or no this boils down to a matter of trust that they won’t - again, basically a pinkie promise. Sure, if they broke that promise (and you somehow managed to catch them in it) you could sue them, but again this does nothing to change the fact that they are fully capable of accessing the data.
Choosing to use windows and onedrive anyway despite knowing this, like I said before, is a valid choice as long as and only if it’s a choice that you knowingly make for yourself. It’s the wrong choice imo, especially when plenty of other services that do the same thing without the ability to access your shit exist, but as long as people are making that choice for themselves I don’t have a problem with it. Its acting like it’s unreasonable to push people to be aware of these facts and make their own informed choices is unreasonable that I disagree with.
No, you need to demand that government organizations use Linux or other open source systems as well, there is no other way.
You can require Microsoft to comply with rules, it won’t. It doesn’t care, it wants money, and more money, and that is it. It’s been like that since it’s inception. The same goes for all other tech companies
You know what brand doesn’t careuch about money and will respect your privacy?
Open source software. Linux. Firefox (eh, mostly) with plugins, mariadb, etc…
If you believe the duly elected people have less power than a corporation, well, that’s also a “we” problem
I once took a government contract for rebuilding a critical piece of software to provide civic services to the under-employed.
I finished it in about a month. Was paid. And I was on a retainer for three years to provide updates.
It actually took FOUR years before it was launched live to the general public.
Best of luck convincing the underpaid govt IT to move OSes.
At some point they’ll have to
I’m still pissed the email I had managed to keep junk free for years was leaked because my insurance company had a breach.
Simplelogin/anonaddy
That having been said, keeping an email “private” is roughly as silly as people who think phone numbers are private, as if the white pages never existed.
Until there is serious consequences to data breaches and criminal charges it doesn’t matter. It’s been a free for all for a long time the best we can do is simply keep using products or services that respect your privacy and discourage or not use services.
As a home user the OS thing is preference, some prefer Windows, some Mac, some Linux, etc.
Your post however raises a good point, and it certainly makes me form an opinion in a greater context. Thanks for making me think about this, genuinely - it’s good to have opinions challenged.
Thanks for making me think about this, genuinely - it’s good to have opinions challenged.
Not me. I plan to continue being a sweaty holier-than-thou neck beard and mock people using Windows. Brb gotta write to my dentist about how good Linux is now and recommending Arch to my general doctor who still uses a computer from 2010.
Pretty sure we all know that. I’ve been using Linux full time for about 8 years now. I’m also EXTREMELY aware that I can’t change what OS an organization runs. It’s a systemic problem.
Does your company/school provide employee/student Microsoft 365 licences? Ask your Windows-using colleague to check that “Optional Connected Experiences” are enabled and tell the IT team that they are likely allowing genAI training on internal documents (Microsoft seems to have reserved the right to do that and never denied the allegations). Yes, they can disable this organization-wide and will likely contact Microsoft over this, and if enough of us do this they’ll know they crossed a line.
If your company’s IT team does not respond, you’ll have another argument getting your peers over to LibreOffice.
We’re working hard to get rid of Microsoft as last we checked, we can’t disable copiloi using our data used on SharePoint without also removing all required user functionality like searching documents from SharePoint. We searched everywhere and literally couldn’t find a way to remove that.
I know that government is storing citizens data there…
WTF, why have companies ever decided to use Microsoft ?
Dump Microsoft, now.
Because the IT Manager is a clueless imbecile who only wants things his way and will not take in any other alternatives whatsoever. Doesn’t matter if it’s better for the company, they insist on having everything their way.
I made a similar point in one of My blog articles
This is unrelated to the article you’re sharing now, but I read that (I agree thoroughly that the GDPR needs to be a start, but that it’s inconsistently followed/enforced) and then I saw and read your article about apathetic cis people who might be agender. That’s a neat perspective that I hadn’t considered before — I’m cis and very much not apathetic about my gender (and I sometimes experience dysphoria if I am not treated as my gender). However, I have a bunch of other friends who have described their attachment to their gender as being far more “meh”, and I am looking forward to getting a chance to discuss your article with them.
It strikes me that most of my friends are some flavour of LGBTQIA+, but I don’t know anyone who is agender. However, 10 years ago, many of my friends who now are non-binary didn’t know a term for their experience of gender, so identified as the closest they could find (such as lesbian). I wonder how many people I know who might find that “agender” feels like a fitting identity, if it were more prevalent in discourse etc.
Thank you
But does your medical clinic do? Does your therapist do? Does your family member…
Surprisingly, yes. Though they’re not happy with it, for various reasons. But it was refreshing to rant to my therapist about snap, apt and systemd and have them truly understand me.
I can control if I use Linux or not. I can’t control my government being
bribedlobbied by big tech that shits on consumer rights. I know what can reasonably change. Also the therapist and doctor offices are bad examples, because they have strong legal defenses through HIPAA.Dude, I can’t even demand my health care insurance cover anesthesia for a procedure. Demanding anything from the government or a corporation is absolutely pointless at the moment.
deleted by creator
