Those HR people who make the listing don’t understand most of it anyway.
It’s also ridiculous how often I see „Java“ instead of „JavaScript“ in job listings.
Edit: Not trying to judge Java here, this is purely about recruiters not knowing the difference, posting jobs for Java devs when they need JS devs
Maybe they have a ton of different machines and need an app that works in any environment?
Agreed, why haven’t we killed java off? It’s terrible and there are replacements. At least with JavaScript it’s terrible but a monopoly.
“I’m looking fora Data Analyst”
“Gotcha, we put up an ad for Data Science”
“No, Data Analyst, that’s diff-”
“Here, we already got some applicants”
“They’ll be very disappointed to learn that I’m not interested in their AI skills”
It’s not lying as much as it’s advertising. If they’re asking about your greatest weakness, tell them. Just don’t neglect to mention how you mitigate that weakness too, and are improving. Don’t let your answer end on “I’m a disorganized mess”, end it on “so in the last year, I’ve started building and using checklists and it’s been really effective”.
In the same way, be up front if they ask about the criteria you don’t meet. But consider your entire answer, again, you can say something like “I actually haven’t worked in that language before, but I’ve done lots of work in Python and Java, so I’m confident I can pick it up quickly as needed”. If they don’t ask, then it probably wasn’t really that important of a criteria to them, so you shouldn’t waste your interview time talking about it either.
Don’t volunteer all your worst traits, you only have an hour, so focus on describing your strengths as often as you can. Nobody expects to completely understand you as a person in one hour, they’re specifically asking you to come in and advertise yourself. Instead, read between the lines in the listing (I.E. Things mentioned in the job description or title are likely more important than something in a single bullet point. Look for repetition, or how much they talk about each requirement.). Figure out what the “customer” wants that you’re good at, and ensure you emphasize it, repeatedly. Define clear takeaways and make sure they know what you’re offering, and will actually remember it too.
And practice your answers to many questions. Come up with your best anecdotes for “a time you resolved a conflict with a coworker” and all that nonsense in advance, so that you can confidently segue into those stories that best emphasize your takeaways when asked. Do some research on the company to come up with a good answer to questions like “why do you want to work here?”. The answer doesn’t have to be your top priority, which is obviously “a paycheque”, but just append an unsaid “instead of somewhere else” and answer honestly, because people are good at detecting insincerity. You likely haven’t applied to every company on earth, so tell them why you chose them.
Lastly, like an advertiser, don’t be afraid to segue from other questions into your prepared answers. “Yeah, I’ve always loved X, that’s why I wanted to work here actually, I’d heard a bit about how you were getting involved with X, but with this interesting twist, and thought that sounded like something I’d really enjoy working on”. The interview questions are designed to get you talking about yourself, it’s not a survey where the strict questions are all that matter, and you can simply joke about it if the question comes up later.
A lot of this is tied into rhetoric. Rhetoric is a skill. You don’t need to lie. You need to tell the truth good.
saving this for future reference. I’ve told this to many of friends over the years, but you’ve laid it out more beautifully than I ever did
I don’t understand why op thinks they are special for going through this workflow. Women are way less likely than men to ignore job requirements when applying for jobs and many many people have to be reminded that job requirements are fluffy. Are all these people “neurodivergent”? We seem to want to apply this term everywhere for some reason.
I don’t think that op thinks they’re special by going through the workflow. I think op thinks that the workflow lands differently on them because of their condition. I think op thinks that it’s related to their condition because no one else seems to be complaining about this and so maybe neurotypicals aren’t as bothered by this.
Yeah, this is an oddly common sentiment amongst those that make neurodivergence their personality; which is funny because it’s more common to be neurodivergent than neurotypical. While it’s usually said that 20% of people are neurodivergent, it’s actually more than 50% when you include everything that constitutes neurodivergence and even account for significant overlap.
I think “neurotypical” by now means “I wanna say ‘normie I look down upon’, but I don’t want to sound like an incel”
Nope. I’m neurodivergent, I know a lot of neurodivergent people. We all kind of gravitated to eachother over time. Some are ADHD, like me, some are on the spectrum for autism, and there’s a bunch more that I simply cannot list because the list is pretty long.
I can tell you that zero of the neurodivergent people I know use the term “neurotypical” to mean anything like what you suggest. In every context it’s meant to exemplify the lack of mental struggle that some people have in their daily life in contrast to what most neurodivergent people experience.
Eg, anxiety and paralysis when contemplating or engaging in anything remotely social. For some neurodivergents, such activity evokes a very strong reaction. Some neurotypicals also experience something similar, usually less severe at least; but the experience is not unique to us.
The most common derogatory use of “neurotypical” that I’ve seen is regarding empathy, or the lack thereof, from people who have not experienced a major mental health event, and are so neurotypical that they cannot even fathom the struggles of people who are neurodivergent.
You all don’t understand, then victim blame us and call us lazy, when our brain chemistry literally prevents us from making any useful progress on stuff. Then there’s a whole swath of you that shames us for using meds to help correct the discomfort of being wired differently in a world that isn’t designed to accommodate, or even sympathise with us.
Now we’re being, more or less, accused of using “neurotypical” as a slur to hide that we’re incels?
Seriously?
What if they meant it from the perspective of a neurotypical?
If they want to take offense at what is essentially a synonym for “normal, societally accepted brain function” the sure lol
are y’all actually gatekeeping diversity?
I have a stable job that I like.
Sometimes I think I should go to interviews just to make recruiters feel insecure, “your business is not up to my expectations” “what do you mean you don’t provide flexible remote working?” “Your paycheck is just too small for me, sorry”.
I would get a laugh of of it and probably would help some fella by lowering this fuckers ego.
Your motives are horrible. Hiring managers in any org larger than a few hundred people have very little control over anything you mentioned. So you’re just taking time away from other applicants and time away from the needs of the people who already work at a place in order to satisfy your pettiness.
If you actually did this rather than just wanting to, you would be the bad guy in the situation.
As an autistic person I relate to this so hard it isn’t funny.
As a non-autistic person, it’s also incredibly annoying. Job hunting has always been a really stupid system with lots of really stupid rules of thumbs.
I don’t consider myself neurodivergent but I do consider this issue one of the greatest barriers with my finding employment. I was raised to despise lying, and enough bad experiences have made me consider ‘massaging the truth’ to be the exact same thing.
It’s because they’re actually lying about the criteria, its more like a wish list than actual requirements. In the interview just say oh I only know a little about criteria x but I’m keen to learn or whatever
A lot og questions can be answered diplomatically and show that you are able to handle yourself:
Q: do you like the colour red?
A1: I hate red
A2: I don’t like red
A3: Not my favourite colour
A4: I prefer blue
In this entirely made up and pointless exercise you hate red and are asked if you like it. Real world applications converging on zero.
On a scale of lie to truth, where are you comfortable with representing your thoughts of red in an interview?
And remember, only Sith deals in absolutes🙃
*Edited layout
I took a job as a medical assistant. I was not certified. It was during COVID, and the manager was woefully understaffed. I had zero experience or training. They still hired me, because in her words “we can teach you everything you need to know, and your resume demonstrated you were a good learner so that’s all that matters.” (I had taught myself Chinese and coding, and put that on the resume).
I worked my butt off, and after two years when I had to leave to go back to school they offered me a massive raise, more training to get me a promotion as an actual technician to start making 80k/year, and they even said when I finished grad school I could be taken on as a partner and own the business (it was a small clinic). They wanted to do anything to get me to stay.
All these companies these days care too much about certs. They don’t know how to hire. They should look for resume’s that demonstrate learning, initiative, responsibility, and commitment. Because at the end of the day: almost anyone can learn any job that isn’t a PhD-level.
Like, having managers be required to have a college degree is moronic.
A job I applied to a year ago made me do a general logic test. It’s the only job that’s ever made me do one. I think I spent like half the time on one question because I was so confused. I genuinely believe there was a typo. Anyways, it’s the closest I’ve come to putting my foot down and asking for accomodations because holy shit.
So, I ace the part relevant to my job but failed that part bad. Get this: they say they want me to retake it before giving the results to the potential client. HUH? If the test is bullshit, why make me do it at all? AND GET THIS. I retake it. I’ve now wasted three hours of my 2023 holiday season on this. The client rejects me because I didn’t have experience with some random technology. WTF??? I think I even asked before all this why don’t they show my resume to the client before the test and they said because they like to give a full file. I was so angry. It’s probably the most unprofessional email I’ve sent, but I literally sent one saying something like “Then why didn’t you show them my resume before making me waste three hours???” Seriously. They didn’t even talk to me. Which is fine, I’m not saying they should have to, but for the contracting company to make me waste so much time… And to make me retake it (proving the whole thing is BS). Wow.
Anyways, I’m employed now, thank goodness.
My boss’s boss said everyone should be happy on Friday because it’s bonus day. I’m my boss’s only contracted employee. I think I don’t get one. I’m very tempted to just send him an email like “was I supposed to see a bonus in my paycheck? Blah mentioned it.” But I don’t wanna seem passive aggressive.
You don’t lie, lying will get you into trouble. You just don’t mention it if they don’t ask. And if they don’t ask it’s probably not that important. Most job descriptions are like Christmas wishlists anyway, they will be happy if they get half of it.
Then those criteria souldn’t go under “Required” then.
“Required” has a clear definition.
It’s only wrong if you get caught!
I find it entertaining that the criteria for neurodivergence includes telling the truth.
I’m not telling you not tell the truth, I’m telling you to consider that list of skills on a job description is a wishlist and only answer what is asked in the interview.
I’ve interviewed more people than I can count, leading to more hirings than I can count, and I don’t remember any case where the candidate met all the checkboxes on the ideal skillset. Because what goes in the job description is the perfect candidate not the minimum.
When I found out the list of qualifications could be filled on the job it made applying a lot easier because I was no longer worried about bring ‘found out’ for not being fully qualified on day one. I blame the position wording making it sound like day one requirements and HR treating them as day one requirements
So you’re saying that you’re the one doing the lying when you fill out the job description?
Lying by omission is still lying. And if they weren’t hard requirements, they should say so. So many job listings I’ve seen word it like those are the minimum requirements.
Why yes, I do thrive under pressure. It’s why I use a weighted blanket.
I’d like to be
Under the sea
In an octopus’s garden
in the shade
a friend once got me a job interview with his company. he listened into the interview, and i could hear him audibly gasp when the interviewer asked, “why do you want to work for us?”. I replied plainly, “To make a living so that I may pursue my real goals.” I didn’t get the job…
I’m not technically NT but I have ADHD and I don’t have problems picking up this sort of neurotypical social cues.
When I interview people myself, I’m extra wary of catering to ND people, and for questions like this, I phrase them very carefully to mean what I want to ask:
“Why do you want to work for us? I’m sure there were other jobs out there that would result in a salary, but what made you apply for this one specifically?”
I make clear in the conversation that I want to know their motivation, their alignment to the specific role, and not the fact that they need money to live. I already know that! So I tailor the questions to give me exactly what I need even if the person is, say, autistic and takes things in the most literal way.
This post has, however, made me realise that in the job posting I have open right now, I’m going to add a note in the vein of “this is a wishlist of all the things the ideal candidate would have, but we acknowledge nobody is ever a 100% perfect match - feel free to apply even if you only meet some of the criteria as you might be more qualified than most applicants”.
I have always appreciated the listings that divide the list between the “must haves,” even soft ones (e.g. 4yr degree, knowledge of X tool, Y years of experience, solid communication skills), and “our ideal candidate will have most of the following” (e.g. Y+3 years of experience, prior role in management, knowledge of Z regulation).
The 4 year degree one is still never a must have. The only things that are true must haves are certifications for federally regulated jobs, like requiring a PE.
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There are things they actually care about enough to throw out your resume on pre-screen though. That’s de facto required for that particular job.
Hit them back with “why do you want to hire me?”
I see what you mean, but you have to read in between the lines a little bit. When they ask that question, they want to know why you’d rather work for them than anyone else hiring in that space.
Your answer makes it sound like you have zero interest in the company. I’m sure that you’d rather work for them than a myriad of other places if you actually applied. Think of why that is and focus on the positives. It’s not lying unless you literally had zero reason to work there as opposed to anywhere else.
Oh? I am not supposed to take a question at face value? I need some form of, wink wink, unspoken knowledge of human interaction that was not specified in the job offer? jfc
You’re supposed to lie. Because everyone who is not a true believer in the cause - of the product, the company, the industry, the economy, capitalism, whatever it may be, is also lying. Because the whole system depends on everyone going along with it, otherwise it all falls apart. That you have to slave away at your shitty job with shitty managers so that one day you can become the manager and be shitty because it happened to you, all in service of the exploitation of natural resources and people and society to make line go up and make the people who managed to step on the most amount people on their way to the top that much richer.
Yeah they don’t specify every parameter of human interaction in writing before you have a meeting. I’m not saying that it’s easy, but it’s just one of the challenges of dealing with people. Best of luck with future interviews though. The whole way we hire people in the corporate world has this crazy song and dance to it, but IMO it’s better to learn it a bit. Try not to let it influence your style so much that you’re not telling the company about yourself at all, but learning what kinds of answers the company is looking for can make it much easier to know what the heck to talk about when asked these weird questions.
Half of the requirements listed aren’t even actual requirements; they’re just listing their tech stack. For example, if I see NodeJS, I know I’ll be deploying web apps, not coding them. I don’t even read the requirements most of the time. If the title matches and there’s no security clearance required, I’m applying.
I swear my company has one list of requirements for all jobs. Every time I am part of the hiring process I have to correct it
I think of myself as a neutodivergent person but I am annoyed by neurodivergent people who act like everything is binary yes/no black/white full volume/absolute silence. Like, everyone in the world knows that the gas pedal in the car is not an on/off switch and believe it or not but other things in life are like that.
Black and white thinking is pretty common in ASD though isn’t it?
Yes, and this is why it’s a disorder and can be a disability despite people saying things like "autism is my super power ". It’s not funny when strict rigid thinking runs up against fluid reality. People make absolute rules in their heads and when the real world doesn’t align with those rules they can suffer real distress.
I guess that’s my point. I agree with you. ASD make up a large portion of ND. I don’t personally like the ND identity even with an ADHD diagnosis (and have quite obvious symptoms when off my meds).
The reason I don’t like it is because if you use it as an identity, suddenly my experience needs to be accepted by everyone. I need the medicine to function in this society. To appear as a functioning adult. If I just said to people “Im neurodivergent” and expect them to handle my lengthy train of thought and wild imagination I would probably not have a job.
It isn’t race, ethnicity, a sexuality or gender - that is an identity that affects no one regardless of occupation or status except the individual. Neurodivergent disorders affect you, your family, your friends, your employer, your customers, your classmates, etc.
And depression
What I’ve learned from Lemmy is that everyone is neurodivergent.
