This post is… Well a little lacking in my opinion. I am someone who believes that if we can’t tolerate different opinions in different spaces that isn’t a good way to engage in good faith anyway. While I like the fediverse. Example: Mastodon and Pixelfed. The platforms themselves isn’t always the most user friendly and to me at least is a little lacking. I’m also confused as to why this post flat out doesn’t mention bluesky as well but I digress. It’s a very new thing to look at what social platform people use as a political statement. Of course we all know MAGA supporters use Truth Social and X (Twitter). At the end of the day when less and less people refuse to come to the table and find common ground the more violent and destructive the world is going to become. Violence only creates more violence. imo.
I am someone who believes that if we can’t tolerate different opinions in different spaces that isn’t a good way to engage in good faith anyway
So you’ve not been paying attention the last 20 years? Letting Nazis be Nazis on your platform just turns it into a Nazi platform
Everything you’re saying is just fear mongering in my opinion. Also bad faith as you only point out the most extreme examples right off the bat. I don’t engage with extremism you ARE a part of the problem.
No, they’re completely right. Destructive, hateful opinions are not “just different opinions”, they are actively destroying and bastardizing the discussions and making people feel unwelcome. They are not to be tolerated unless you want all normal people to leave and only the assholes to stay, just like what is happening with Twitter.
Fuck nazis and their sympathizers.
enshittification. Reddit , mozilla and tiktok has recently joined the ranks/. they saw the money right wing content brings in, and they went with it, of course they need equal number of arguments against this content, otherwise thier investment fails.
I agree with the sentiment of this post. In fact, I was trapped (and extremely discontent) on Facebook for the first half of my digital-life; before finding open-source - and the rest is history.
I am afraid that we are not doing nearly enough however. This (like most things in this world) is a multilayered issue with no quick-fix, but the core of it is that many (and I mean MANY) of us are tech illiterate. Worse so, even more of us are math illiterate.
This generally means that most cannot cope with the current world we live in, and are experiencing extreme levels of inertia. I was here at one point, so I know how difficult this transition is.
An open web existing (on its own) won’t do much - its the culture that needs to change. We need to be equipped to think, fight, and adapt - or our spaces won’t survive. We are in a constant arms race with bad actors and ALL OF US need to be capable to win this fight. When the bots come to Lemmy (and they will), are most of us prepared to handle filter-lists, run servers, and potentially create a web-of-trust? I doubt this.
I would really like to see a return to real-life communication for most things (as humans are, from birth, well adapted to this) and the open-web only be used for automation and coordination. I think the most freedom comes from stability and the internet (in general) just does not offer that.
I think you’re forgetting Lemmy already has a pretty high barrier to entry tech wise, I think most of us will be fine.
This is true, but only for now.
The point of decentralized social platforms is to eventually include everyone. This is not to say this is Lemmy’s goal, but it is certainly the goal of its users. The tech-illiterate will show up en-masse (they always do) and what will be our answer for it? From what I see, we have none - this is no different than living on borrowed time.
We have to remember that “enshittification”, before all else, is a cultural issue. When the people that have this culture arrive, the whole platform will suffer for it (hence what I said earlier). Humans are just better with dealing with this in real-life, but the internet poses a lot more challenges that I just do not think we are ready for.
1: we’ve been waiting for the masses to arrive for about 2 years now, there was a peak, then a significant fall off 2: there is a solution, and we talk about it all the time: simplify onboarding
I think you may just not be hanging around in the instance development and community servers if you’re not seeing these conversations
The major platforms are convenient.
But the open web offers something better: genuine ownership, community governance, and independence.
This has a kind of underlying connotation that the open web can’t be convenient. This is not true.
It is true that lots of platforms on the fediverse (Lemmy included) don’t have the best user experience and user journey flow. But that’s not how it has to be. We don’t have to accept that as a given.
It’s the same problem that Linux faces, where UX issues aren’t prioritised because the user base is technical enough to deal with the bullshit. We can’t let the same thing occur to the fediverse.
Back in the old days, you could register an account without giving your phone number. Nowadays, pretty much all the big social medias won’t let you register an account without a number. I guess that’s not a big problem for people who don’t care about privacy, but for me that’s a total deal breaker. This means, that there’s a huge barrier to entry.
I’m not a fan of mastodon because it really does feel a lot like other social media sites, I don’t really like any form of advertising, whether it’s intentional or unintentional. People post too much bullshit trying to gain followers. I never cared much for twitter/facebook/instagram anyway.
Lemmy however is a better replacement for Reddit, so far. I remember when Reddit was the replacement and now look at it, a big steaming pile of ads and bots, power tripping admin and moderators, killed 3rd party apps that made the site useable. Hopefully lemmy can remain the same as it is now.
Totally agree. These platforms have no discussion culture. They are only designed to gain followers. This means only polarizing content of a very small group of users gets attention and all the rest is not even visible to other people. Reddit or Lemmy is very different in that sense. Even a new user can start a rich discussion because of subs/communities and without the need of followers. Thus the quality of the whole network is overall better.
My fear is that, if lemmy gets too successful, that regarding bots the same fate may occur.
anyone got tips for finding quality memes on mastodon? i love the philosophy of the service, but i have 0 interest in reading political takes from strangers all day, and right now it feels like all i see on the “trending” page is people complaining about politics. i just want to escape the bad news and laugh a little, not get mad at my phone anytime i open the app
For real, I love mastodon and its philosophy but sometimes I need some brainrot or something fun, and that site its only politics, tech, and memes made by old people
You gotta make them.
Tell me when you found some :‘D
maybe have a extra mastodon account where you just follow positive things and radically filter out negative stuff (even with word based filters)
and then i can just recommend:
- be patient. The awesome people will be found over time.
- lemmy communities are also great, but i dont remeber the names. But different instances have some funny meme communities.
- search hashtags
- in general explore stuff.
Just being here has felt freeing in and of itself. No ads omg. It’s beautiful. I like the slower pace here too, it doesn’t bother me to see the same post on the main page from a few days ago. I think it’s a nice break for my senses actually.
I wouldn’t mind a little faster paced fwiw, the conversation can stagnate a bit sometimes, but it is what it is.
Yeah though I think it’s a little bit too political at times. I get it, Trump and Musk is destroying the USA from within, but I don’t need to read about it in every second post…
thats what reddit has become, even worst they allow the con sub to be on the front page all the time.
Less bots, more genuine conversations, it’s also not as fast-paced as other social medias.
It’s great. It feels like a forum from back in late 2000s / early 2010 and I like it
And even when it gets heated, people still seem to listen and not just performatively push agendas. Seen more "fair enough"s than in years of Reddit.
Absolutely. People treat eachother like they treat others irl.
I’ve gone all-in on (properly) federated social media and I’ve got to say it’s been a great experience. After what’s happened to Twitter, with Zuck’s recently stated plans for Meta, and TikTok’s immediate Trump cocksucking, I realized that all privately-owned platforms are as good as compromised, no matter the utility they otherwise provide.
Instagram was more difficult as it was how I found out about a lot of local events, and was my primary connection to a lot of old friends, but it was worth it. I actually reach out and talk to those friends who I previously just followed. It’s restored some actually connection that social media had stripped away, and I find myself avoiding the endless scroll I used to get caught in.
I’m still working on evacuating YouTube, but using RSS feeds to be more deliberate about whose uploads I’m notified about has helped a ton.
John Mastodon.
My grandfather met John Mastodon in 1861. He says he was very nice.
I remember reading a book that talked about public spaces and how we often think of malls as public spaces, but they have so many restrictions and ulterior motives that it doesn’t really hold.
They’re essentially the irl equivalent of centralised social media platforms. I hope once the fediverse really takes off, we can have ‘official’ platforms/instances that are run by governments that federate only to other ‘official’ ones. That seems like a better way to reach people, instead of Xitter.
It is incredibly frustrating to see for example Ursula Von der Leyen preaching “EU STRONG” stuff on fucking shitter. Really? This is your way of showing how strong the EU is and we shouldn’t or can’t rely on USA? By posting your I’m strong message on the precise platform the US chief nazification officer owns? FFS.
If all EU governments together decide to ditch shitter and move to mastodon instances, media follows. It’s a pretty cheap measure to implement, too.
EU really should ban Twitter. US social media has turned out to be incredibly dangerous with algorithm manipulation with the best evidence being the US and their election and people.
Hard agree! I do think fediverse platforms are perfect for public entities to disseminate information.
I’m US based so my example is say a county. They already have the IT infrastructure and staff. Make an instance for the county and a community for each department.
The road department can post road closures and upcoming traffic diversions. The parks department can promote events, etc.
These type of instances can just disable comments. They are read-only so moderation is not needed.
It’s trivial from a resource perspective and even easier than updating a website.
I hope more active users move to the fediverse. That way we will have a lot of variety in content and can also potentially prevent communities from becoming echo chambers. I suppose moderation will also have to be taken up a notch for these changes to actually have a positive effect.
I hear echo chamber brought up a lot but never really have seen examples of a place that doesn’t have an echo chamber.
I think that’s just the natural result of people forming communities as opposed seeking out battle grounds for adversaries.
Only thing that can be done is offering people the tools to freely form as many communities as they want with the main barrier being who feels compelled to join the new echo chamber community.
prevent communities from becoming echo chambers
I suspect this will still become a problem since we can subscribe to whichever communities we like and vice versa.
It is a feature, not a problem.
I have, like, this whole rich life offline. My curated list of instances and communities (plus my user block list) is just my entertainment and a small portion of my day.
You may not believe this but I have numerous thoughts, activities and interactions that never leave a trace online. I have no obligation to drink from the firehose that is being pumped from the septic tank of the human psyche.
@Flagstaff @gunpachi I’m not sure echo chambers are inherently a bad thing. My real life is a carefully crafted echo chamber of people I like to spend time with (which conveniently includes my family). The problem comes when we get *all* our information from that echo chamber.
I agree with what you are saying. What I really meant is that every community should have some amount of people who think differently and see things from a different perspective. This can help widen the variety of posts, comments and even sources used for citations.
For instance, here on lemmy I’ve noticed a tendency for people to see things from a political viewpoint and don’t hesitate to start a flame war in the comments. Maybe the average user will feel more welcome to express their opinions if they see that the existing users are open minded. Thankfully most communities I’m a part of are very nice, more so than their reddit counterparts.
P.S: forgive me if there are any logical inconsistencies in my comment. I might be a little intoxicated.
Why moderation? The old internet didn’t have moderation. Why does everyone feel the need for moderation?
Guess you never used forums.
I don’t know what old internet you used, but the IRC channels and forums I used to run around on definitely had moderation. This was about '97. Maybe you’re talking about the late 80s when barely anybody knew the Internet even existed and it was just academics and ubernerds?
Trolls, bots, and scammers make them necessary at a minimum, and then the subliminal messaging from the cronies of politicians, etc. make them welcome. Bots are easier to make than ever before so you can’t compare the past with the present that easily. kbin.social died last year because of relentless spam bots posting garbage/malware links 100x/sec.
Computer bots always act a certain predictable way. You can filter out most bots easily based on time-based filters or other algorithms. The rest should not be moderated, except for illegal things like selling weapons, drugs, or hiring a hitman.
Moderation is a skippery slope. Everyone wants to moderate something different. Rights want to moderates Lefts, Lefts want to moderate Rights. Moderators have the power to decide which side they are on. If we had clear laws that forbid most moderation, there would not be any discussion about it anymore. Just allow everything and deal with it.
That hasn’t been true for a long time. Filtering bots has increasingly become more difficult, expensive, and sophisticated. Not to mention that there are still plenty of state sponsored bad actors using real people and hybrid approaches.
What’s your solution to that? Not filtering out bots? Or manually moderating? The latter is even more expensive.
The old internet was hidden behind dial-up modems and TCP-IP stacks and weird telnet and usenet protocols. This complexity worked as a filter and the people using it were mostly academics, students, techies and other nerds (me amongst them). The moment uncle Bob could poke his way through social media on his phone from the shitter, the whole thing cascaded into Eternal September and “the old internet” was lost forever.
Preach!
