https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/39616364?scrollToComments=true
https://lemmy.world/u/sag@lemm.ee
https://lemmy.world/modlog/?userId=1957570
Underage, you will be unbanned when you turn 18 (happy birthday in advance)
Yeah, it seems a little odd to do a full ban for anyone under 18. Do they feel that all communities on there are not appropriate for minors?
Afaik, there are laws and regulations that make it more difficult to collect personal information about minors including their email address. I imagine the admins understandably just don’t want to deal with that.
That’s not really relevant in this case though, federated profiles don’t contain any of that information. They just contain the public posts and comments and anything the person might have added to their profile bio directly. They don’t contain personal information of any kind.
deleted by creator
PTB. This is unreasonable. Also trying to prevent teenagers from accessing the internet is just going to lead to all teenagers just lying about their age. It’s not going to stop it. It’s just going to mean they can’t discuss their actual opinions and issues honestly. It would also reinforce the need to lie to be part of culture, which is just not healthy.
Teenagers lying about their age on the internet is as old as teenagers on the internet.
Keeping the age barriers in place is good anyway. It communicates to younger people clearly that the content is not considered suitable for them. It gives them a moment to think and reconsider.
Participating in online culture might be generally not healthy for adults as well.
Did you know? IG is pretty restrict about NSFW content? But does it stop anything? No.
It stops stuff from being on Instagram.
@Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com Is it the responsibility of gmail to make sure that people on other mail services don’t break their TOS?
Isn’t that the whole point of email being federated?
It’s always a bit surprising when people reply from Misskey or Mastodon, I feel like I have to answer while they just comment generally
@Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com I started making “lists” of lemmy communities on sharkey, because lemmy still doesn’t have the feature.
PTB, this seems really like they’re overstepping their bounds, @Demigodrick@lemmy.zip has clarified the matter.
Unfortunately this isn’t the first time Lemmy.world has done something like this using “legal” as an excuse, and probably won’t be the last time. They’re too big so they’ll never get defederated or penalized by any server wishing to stay even remotely relevant so nothing is likely to change.
Aw, they actually did the ban. That’s unfortunate.
On one hand, yes, legal liability and all that, but on the other hand half the site is copyright violations. The law only matters sometimes. I say this as someone who has hosted web communities myself, there’s no reason to be banning for something like age on these instances, especially when we’re talking 16 and not 12. It’s unenforceable and trivial enough that there’s no legal pressure to do so.
I just think they should make a new account and not say that they are underage. I don’t so much have a problem with people being underage online but saying that you are is putting an unnecessary target on your back.
Wierd .ee modlog doesn’t show me banned?
I think it only appears on .worlds modlog
Damn, i liked sag :(
I think i’m going with a soft PTB from my pov. Tbf dbzer0 is pretty lax on rules, especially towards people outside the instance. I don’t think it’s within my place or anyone else’s to ban someone from such a huge part of the fediverse.
But this highlights the need to decentralize from .world, the fact that a single instance ban can take away such a huge part of the fediverse from a user feels ridiculous.
I get why they did it, but it feels unfair.
I willingly blocked .world that place is a toxic cesspool. It also felt too much like reddit.
Yeah, this sort of stuff strikes me as bad for the user affected and for .world, but good for lemmy overall. An active, competent user is being forced to post to non-LW communities exclusively.
Damn RIP then if I got banned from .world after this post I am leaving Lemmy.
I hope he doesn’t.
Agreed. But even if he does, this sort of stuff contributes to a reputation and could lead future users to choose to post to communities on better instances. That’s the part I think would be good for lemmy overall.
Bruh
Why we banning kids now?
What if they have shitty parents and need to go online to vent?
😓
What if they have shitty parents and need to go online to vent?
Fortunately I have good and supportive parents.
What if they have shitty parents and need to go online to vent?
That’s the whole point, they want to keep children away from support networks to enforce the idea of parents owning their children. People are going to argue otherwise but as a trans person myself I’ve seen this and you’re not fooling anyone with your lame excuses about protecting kids. People especially those who are vulnerable need support networks, do you know how many trans kids kill themselves because they can’t get the support they need and live with abusive and controlling parents. Don’t tell me it’s to protect kids, I’m not stupid enough to buy that lie and you’re not stupid enough to think I’d buy it.
Children are not fucking chattel and I’m tired of pretending like they are.
It’s weird to confuse responsibility and mentorship with ownership.
It’s weird that you consider actions reminiscent of ownership and control, like trying to keep children away from support groups, or preventing a trans kid from expressing themselves in a way that aligns with their gender identity, responsibility or mentorship. You sound so much like a right wing troll right now, and it’s not funny or amusing.
What, are you going to say that children don’t understand their gender? That they’re confused? That all parents care for their kids and should be the only influence in their lives? It’s certainly sounds like that’s where you’re going right now.
That’s the whole point[:] they want to keep children away from support networks to enforce the idea of parents owning their children.
I wish I had your mind-reading ability. Without that omniscient edge this looks like the weirdest bit of teen O.D.D today.
Am I supposed to feel insulted? I don’t care what some right wing troll thinks of me. Whether you like it or not, right wing politicians push for these tactics to take support networks away from vulnerable people who they believe to have ownership of.
ptb
but…
I think it’s great that we can expect actual rules and enforcement from instance admins, and have a chance to suss out the edges of these rules in open fora.
Hey, I want your opinion on this matter. As you are currently admin of lemm.ee. Is my ban reasonable or just stupid? Whatever you will say I wil go with it.
Please stay with us 😶
Most of the user on .world if they can’t even see my post what is point of posting :(
I’m afraid .world users will also miss out on your mod actions in all of your communities, which is a particularly unfortunate side-effect.
I don’t think it’s the end of the world (:P), though - .world is a big instance, but there are still tons of users on other instances. I mean, even in your communities, I don’t think .world is not making up the majority of activity.
That’s a really problematic choice in the software. Mod actions should not be excluded/ignored even when a remote user is site banned, that can create dangerous situations for your server by allowing all mod actions to federate but not to your server. It just seems like a problem waiting to happen.
You can always just make a fresh account (and don’t tell anybody)
The other person suggested an alt without telling anyone, Ssems like the best outcome, really. That way LW can keep a blind eye to the thing, and your posts on your alts wouldn’t be banned from LW
There is still lots of people on other instances - and this could push people off .world.
If you don’t mind. I know you are currently busy because of new wave of user. Sorry and Thanks
I’m not sure why .world has the 18 age requirement - AFAIK GDPR only requires 16+ if you don’t specifically ask for parental consent. Of course, there is the matter of pornography etc, but for example Reddit allows 13+ users, and all they do for pornography is show an NSFW warning, which Lemmy also has (although this is a good point - maybe the NSFW toggle should be improved to explicitly ask users to confirm their age on Lemmy as well, similarly to how it works on Reddit).
But at the end of the day, each instance is free to create whatever rules and processes they want, and to ban people according to those rules. I would say that .world admins are probably just trying to do their best in enforcing their rules, and unfortunately that means that most likely you’ll be cut off from .world for the next 5 months 🫤
I’m really not sure how the TOS apply given it opens with:
This Terms of Service applies to your access to and active use of https://lemmy.world/, it’s API’s and sub-domain services (ex alt GUIs)(we, us, our the website, Lemmy.World, or LW) as well as all other properties and services associated with Lemmy.World.
Sag wasn’t accessing or making active use of lemmy.world itself. This would be like an email provider blocking a particular address from another service because the user of that address doesn’t comply with a part of their TOS.
Fully agree.
CLM/CLA.
@flamingos@feddit.uk While the email analogy works well, activityPub is technically an api.
It’s a protocol, which I suppose you could argue is an API though that’d be a very liberal definition of API.
@flamingos@feddit.uk As per the spec:
The ActivityPub protocol is a decentralized social networking protocol based upon the [ActivityStreams] 2.0 data format. It provides a client to server API for creating, updating and deleting content, as well as a federated server to server API for delivering notifications and content.
Interesting. I’ve always considered an API a way to control some other software, while a protocol is about different software communicating. IDK, I just don’t consider APub’s S2S an API. Don’t know if that’d hold up in court, but that’s what I think.
@sag@lemm.ee FYI since I don’t think you’ve seen the new comments on your initial post
I think an 18+ rule for an instance that allows porn or federates with porn instances is reasonable. And when you interact with another instance’s communities, you are beholden to their rules. And the admin who did it said they’re talking about changing the rule. So it’s not like they’re just trying to be dicks.
So… I’m going to go with admins did what they had to, sag learned a tiny lesson about not giving people more information than they needed. I don’t want to say YDI, though.
Oh Reddit have 13+ requirement and have porn on it. You can lie about your age.
And the trick to lying is not telling the truth.
I’m biased here. I’m still against .world and their tendency to use “legality” as a smokescreen. (Blaming it for banning Luigi content right after he axed that United guy has earned my ire forever.)
However… I’m almost 40, and it was always the rule to never mention your age until it didn’t matter. So on the one hand, world loves to use legality to push it’s agenda. On the other hand, this is an expected outcome.
I agree with you that no one should really mention their age, though I don’t agree with you that there’s a point where it doesn’t matter. You’ll find plenty of groups willing to discriminate against older individuals, gaming groups, activist groups, STEM groups, it’s weird but it’s unfortunately a thing.
Lemmy.world has a problem with over modderation when it is out of scope in situations like this, they also have a problem with undermoderation letting shit slide that shouldn’t like Reddit did. Lemmy.world has a lot of very big problems right now and they shouldn’t be cut slack of any of them, even if it is obvious how it happened.
This is a weird nit to pick. If you’re doing it right, you’re only mentioning your age when it doesn’t matter (in safe places or places where your age is helpful, versus places like Lemmy where someone will ban you.)
A good example would be me saying, in this thread, I’m almost 40. Anybody who can use that against me doesn’t matter to me.
Good. Minors shouldn’t be on the internet. They should be reading books and going outside.
I was a minor on the internet once, and it ruined me. I’m horribly addicted to screens.
One ban can’t stop me from using Internet.
Banning minors just incentivises them to lie about their age.
