Not sure if this was already posted.
The article describes the referenced court case, and the artist’s views and intentions.
Personally, I both loved and hated the idea at first. The more I think about it, the more I find it valuable in some way.
ITT: some angry ass men who have missed the point. Lol.
Weird how sexism is okay if it’s against men.
Would you have the same reaction if women got mad about being banned from an art exhibit?
Not if it was an exhibit about misogyny…
You are so eager to be a victim you have deliberately missed the point. Poor men.
Not if it was an exhibit about misogyny…
I don’t believe you, but ok.
You are so eager to be a victim you have deliberately missed the point.
Lol. That’s ironic coming from you.
Poor men.
Imagine if I said the same thing about women. Would probably get my comment removed, haha.
It is a stupid point, and hardly art, but even you should be able to understand it by now if you read the other comments come on
To be fair, there’s a difference between the lounge itself being the exhibit, vs restricting some of Picasso’s pieces
Once I read that the lounge and reaction to it is supposed to be the art itself, it kinda made sense. In a weird way, but it still kinda makes sense.
Is sexist trolling art now? I prefer the toilet
Makes sense. Having a ladies only exhibit that only shows women artists is a positive thing. Not allowing certain visitors into a museum because of their gender is sexist.
Especially with the context that Australia didn’t allow women in pubs with men until 1965 so women there were literally sent to “ladies lounges,” which were apparently always some shitty side room, that sometimes would sell them a drink (at higher prices) while they waited.
Turning that on its head as a temporary exhibit at a museum is clearly art to me. It’s not like she did it as a business concept to make money.
If it’s art, it’s pretty childish art. “Revenge” is not useful nor healthy.
So you feel like you are beeing treated sexist because of your gender.
Wonderful. Now take that feeling. Feel the rage it brings with it, the exclusion, the pure UNFAIRNESS of it.
And now think how often women experience this. Not on the context of “you may not enter” any more, but in hunders of other ways. You can’t be good at math, you’re a woman. Why wouldn’t you want to stay with the kid for a year or so, you’re a woman?!
This is, so I belive, why the artist says the feeling of exclusion is the experience for male visitors she is intending. It gives you the possibility to think about how it feels beeing female in a world that is still very much male dominated (tough in a slightly more subtle way than in 1965).
Thanks for proving my point that modern feminists don’t want equality or even equity; they want superiority.
They think it’s “their turn” to be the abusers and that the world owes it to them.
Well, if this is what you took out of what I wrote then I am sorry, but you came here with that opinion and are trying realy hard to have it justified by realy just anything.
Because, if you’d take the time to understand what I wrote, there’d be no rational conclusion leading to your point. None.
I’m not feeling anything personally because I didn’t go to the art exhibit—I’m just a person reading news stories on Lemmy.
I have been discriminated against for my gender, race, and sexual orientation before. It’s humiliating. I imagine I would also feel a bit humiliated at being turned away from a museum due to my gender.
In general, making people feel like shit for who they are has no positive function in any public space, and I’d prefer it if we simply left those behaviors in the past entirely.
In general, making people feel like shit for who they are has no positive function in any public space, and I’d prefer it if we simply left those behaviors in the past entirely.
I agree with you in general, but after understanding the idea behind it I think, in the context of said art project, it is a useful tool to get some people to think about discrimination.
As this thread shows, it also enraged people and makes them scream “feminist are sexist and want males to suffer”, but hey, you can’t reach everybody.
Did this ticket holder consent to this? Yes or no?
Personally, I both loved and hated the idea at first. The more I think about it, the more I find it valuable in some way.
Thanks you for saying so and spending time thinking about this. The way I see things, the to point here is to take a glance at systemic racism through an art exhibit. That is, if you dare.
Other examples that would illustrate what I mean in relation to systemic racism, would be:
- It is not sexism if a dude is not allowed in a lesbian bar, they just want to do their thing.
- It is sexism went a woman is refused to participate in a grandmaster chess tournament because of tradition/culture/etc.
When I first read it, the thought that came to mind was how stupid it is in this age to do anything that is restricted by gender when the rest of the world is trying to eliminate that.
Once I read the part about the feelings, emotion, and experience the restriction brought was the actual art and not just the paintings, that’s when I thought it was clever. The definition of art seems to be ambiguous now, but I understand what she’s trying to to do and it’s still a clever in that it illicits an effect whether you wanted to visit the museum or not.
I think people say they understand or empathize, but don’t really know what it means in a specific context until they experience it IMO.
I mean, how would people react to a male-only art exhibit?
That’s a very naive equivalence
I’m guessing you support double-standards?
Maybe, but I think what you said is very naive. Like, “They let a doctor cut people open, but when I do it, it’s a crime” tier.
Probably the same way that they do for all of the gentlemen clubs around the world. They wouldn’t care because society is hypocritical. It’s fine for men to do it but the second they are excluded from something it’s not acceptable.
To clarify my standing I think they are both sexist and dumb. If you are going to criticize one then you need to be critical of the other.
There is a difference between a social club and art exhibition. If this was a social group that organised their own internal art exhibition than more power to them.
Nah. It’s discrimination based on sex period. Doesn’t matter what story you tell yourself.
Well in that case then we should not have any womens sport teams, they can compete against the men and 90% of them will lose their careers.
Yes it is sex nased discrimination but that is what clubs and societites are for - finding people withnaimilar interests it is why you will not find many straight people in an LGBT book club, or Muslims living among franciscan monk orders.
So if a group of women want to organise a women’s trip every year and have meetings once a month to discuss logistics and decide on plans then I do not think it is sexist of them to want to keep it to women only.
Didn’t a couple of people mention that was all of it before a certain year?
I also had no idea museums might have had gender restrictions.
Didn’t a couple of people mention that was all of it before a certain year?
I don’t know, did they? Also, why would that matter?
https://mander.xyz/comment/9083214.
I’ll edit this, I can’t read the other stuff on the mobile version while responding.
Edit, I mentioned that because the whole place was male only until '65. I don’t think there was that much outcry? (It didn’t look it up, I assume that poster did).
There would be now in 2024 though.
Ok so you’re saying that women used to be discriminated and that (thankfully) is no longer the case. Why would it be ok for the opposite to happen? Both things are wrong and that “eye for an eye” mentality benefits no one.
I do agree both things are wrong. Meaning discrimination.
I think one person’s art in this case might be described as another person’s stunt.
Edit, as for whether it’s beneficial, not sure. I guess we’ll see.
I’ve got a great idea for an exhibit to teach men about rape.
In his complaint, Lau argued it is discriminatory to keep artwork, like that of the Picasso painting displayed exclusively in the Ladies Lounge, away from he and other men who pay to enter the museum. (…) He’s asked for an apology from the museum and for men to either be allowed into the lounge or permitted to pay a discounted ticket price for the museum.
Kaechele and lawyers for the MONA rebutted by saying the exclusion of men is the point of the Ladies Lounge exhibit. “The men are experiencing Ladies Lounge, their experience of rejection is the artwork,” Kaechele told the Guardian. “OK, they experience the artwork differently than women, but men are certainly experiencing the artwork as it’s intended.”
This is going to be much trickier than it seems based only on the headline. Both anti-discrimination laws and the freedom of art are very fundamental rights, and a decision that weighs these against each other will not be easy to reach (at least I would think so). Curious to see how this lands, although I expect that the museum will come out on top, because the disadvantage that this special exhibit poses to the man (the museum would even argue there is none) is probably not big or permanent enough to justify a restriction on the freedom of art as big as this would entail (and I guess the museum probably discussed this with their lawyer beforehand).
“The men are experiencing Ladies Lounge, their experience of rejection is the artwork,” Kaechele told the Guardian.
This is so interesting. I interpret this to mean that having a man sue them for discrimination could also be considered part of the experience of the artwork. It is very clever and very modern, and also good media exposure. It reminds me of when Banksy sold a piece of art at auction and the frame was a disguised paper shredder that shredded the artwork immediately after it was bought. I hope the media continues to cover this story to see if the artist/museum reveals that being sued for discrimination was their intention all along.
I disagree, I think it’s pretty clearcut discrimination. The museum has to give men the same treatment as the women when they buy the same ticket, and if they buy different tickets then the men need to be given the option to buy a women’s ticket. Only in that last circumstance could this have any chance in court against a discrimination lawsuit.
Kaechele’s husband, David Walsh, founded and owns the MONA.
The artist is lambasting exclusive Mens social clubs
Exclusive men’s social clubs have existed all over the world, including Canada, and particularly thrived in the 19th century. These exclusionary clubs often only accepted white members and barred women from entering the space, apart from when in service roles.
But if she was doing that truly, then it should have been only available to minority women. But she didn’t. She also ignores there are a lot of women only exclusive clubs too, just ask any male victim of sexual assault looking for a support group.
This isn’t some groundbreaking work, it’s just sexist. The artist is tedious.
Performance art is wild, often misunderstood. The entire point is to outrage men and he took the bait lol. The artist is clearly getting off on this, staging shit in even more locations because of the lawsuit.
Weird. I can easily see someone doing the same thing but banning women and you wouldn’t say “they took the bait” when women get mad about it.
