TLDR: StartAllBack, ExplorerPatcher and some other projects are being blocked on 24H2.
One more reason to switch to Linux
I can see why they’d do it. Windows is a corporate product and MSFT wants everyone’s experience to be tailored to exactly how they think is best. Gives some Apple vibes.
I think at this point MSFT knows the average user is just gonna keep using Windows so they don’t really care about tailoring to individuals. I expect to see a lot more of this.
The thing about Windows, or the thing that is going away, was that it has the possibility of being modified and customised, which made it more freedom respecting than macOS.
From the windows registry, group policies, PE functionality, Windows was the commercial platform for tinkerers, businesses and professionals. It’s basically what made Windows awesome.
Now, with ads in the menu, Microsoft being horny for apple’s app store vendor lock-in since Windows 8 and depriving the user of any kind of control, we finally see Microsoft emerge as one of the most evil companies to ever exist.
Why? Read their history, because even with the good things they did with Windows, there’s a thousand bad, and you should never play devil’s advocate for them. They, nor Apple, deserves it.
Also: use Linux or BSD, pls.
or just rollback to win10. it’s still got a few more years - then transition to linux which will be even more stable by then (hopefully)
Better to get that year of Linux under your belt where you have the dual boot fallback
Currently my plan is having a Windows VM on my NAS that I can just dial into on my network for the stuff I still need Windows for.
Though I haven’t done it yet, it’s the goal.
I’ve been hearing that since windows 7
And it continues to be true. Linux continues to get easier and easier to switch to. For gamers as an example, just look at how much focus Valve and engine creators have put into native Linux support.
I shyly installed Linux in dual boot months ago because I want a boring PC just does what I tell it to do. With Proton I was pleased to find that gaming is pretty easy. I actually haven’t had a reason to boot into Windows since.
Hey OP, may I ask if this is actually news and not an sensanionalized post with an opinion in it.
One more reason to switch to Linux
Isn’t this fucking propaganda?
The Microsoft devs have time to do shit like this, but haven’t yet gotten the Settings screen as functional as Control Panel was two decades ago…
Do NOT blame the devs for this. They are not the ones to decide the direction of the product or the priority of the tickets they work. Blame upper management for making these poor decisions and the product managers for being spineless and not pushing back.
The devs are the people who, after seeing everything that Microsoft’s done for the past 30+ years, decided to take a job there anyway.
That’s not a very valid argument.
First and foremost, most devs probably see it as a job and they do what they’re told. They don’t have the power to refute decisions coming from above.
Second, in this economy where jobs are scarer than a needle in multiple haystacks, people are desperate to get a job.
Third, yes, there may be some Microsoft (M$) fan-people who end up being devs at M$. Sure, they may willingly implement the things upper management may request. However, I’m not sure whether that’s true for most of the people who work at M$.
Your comment suggests to shift the blame to the devs who implement the features that upper management request for. Don’t shoot the (MSN) messenger.
i think its because these words are used interchangeably.
when people say ‘devs’ i believe they mean the microsoft team in general
Maybe they are pushing back, which is why Control Panel still exists?
Meanwhile the new settings panel is telling me my network is peivate while control panel and network share settings tell me it’s domain authenticated.
…while you’re sitting in an internet café
It would be funny if true.
Sadly the reality is me calling with a client because this one single PC refuses to apply the damn GPOs… :(Every day I’m thankful for having found a job where in such a case I can just send out a pre-imaged replacement pc from the pile and have them send the old one back.
I would like to. Sadly there are programs on it that can be reinstalled and configured by the respeonsible 3rd party but are still annoying.
The best: No other pc has trouble applying the damn gpo.
Even the DNS resolutiom seems to work on this shit thing… :|
But Steve Ballmer told me “Developers Developers Developers Developers”
Are you saying that was a lie?
He also squealed IIRC
Does anyone else wonder which medication Steve Ballmer was prescribed but didn’t take? He always struck me as a walking check engine light.
Relevant XKCD:
Oh was he an alcoholic? See I got more cocaine vibes out of the man.
Unfortunately, blaming the devs seems to be a recurring problem. I remember seeing this in a YouTube comment thread (paraphrased):
why can’t i insert a bible reference without it becoming blue? i write proverbs 14:23 and youtube turns it into a damn timestamp. f-cking lazy developers, they removed dislikes, now keep preventing adblock and cannot detect a simple quote??
I replied with something like:
Hey, stop blaming the devs. It was not their decision to make the unpopular changes, and making a system for detecting if a comment is referring to a book with chapter:verse syntax (not just the bible, and all their versions & translations) is not something they would pay for. For the record, you can refer to Proverbs 14:23 or any other verse without making it a link. I can show you how but first repent and apologize for undervaluing people’s hard work.
(Yes, there’s just a ZWSP after the colon. It can be mapped to a key combo if one uses it often.) He did not answer but maybe didn’t see my reply buried way underneath – it was YouTube comments, after all. Legend says that bible references in his video description keep messing up his worship chapters.
You overestimate the agency of a developer.
The irony is that people create these tools mostly because they’re frustrated by the limited customisation options provided by default. If Microsoft ever listens to feedback, it’s quite limited, and it takes ages for the new stuff get implemented; moreover very often you just about get used to something and the rug gets pulled from under your feet.
The lack of a small taskbar mode was all it took for me to never upgrade. Just shows MS doesn’t care about its users.
It’s insane that they can’t display the same identical task bar on 2 screens 20+ years after enabling support for multiple displays. It’s frustrating to no end having to look for stuff all over the place.
Well at least finally after three long years Microsoft added the option to combine icons on the taskbar.
Without that option, explorerpatcher was a forced install on w11
Now it’s possible to live without it
Micro$oft are being dicks again, film at 11 but here’s the thing - if you’re interested in customizing Windows - just grab that live distro and get to it man. Linux is here and it’s ready for prime time.
At this point Windows is just for businesses who don’t know better (or refuse to learn) and people who haven’t been told The Good News yet.
Linux isnt quite ready for prime time.
But neither is windows anymore, and Linux isnt generally shitting itself and taking features, features you might rely on away from you
The fucking precarity of modern windows, man. Plus the amount it must spy on you.
I’ll switch to Linux when Visual Studio Community (NOT Code) works on it and I never have to touch the command line ever again.
As someone who genuinely loves the command line - I’d like to know more about your perspective. (Genuinely. I solemnly swear not to try to convince you of my perspective.)
What about GUIs appeals to you over a command line?
I like the CLI because it feels like a conversation with the computer. I explain what I want, combining commands as necessary, and the machine responds.
With GUIs I feel like I’m always relearning tools. Even something as straightforward as ‘find and replace’ has different keyboard shortcuts in most of the text-editing apps I use - and regex support is spotty.
Not to say that I think the terminal is best for all things. I do use an IDE and windowing environments. Just that - when there are CLI tools I tend to prefer them over an equivalent GUI tool.
Anyway, I’m interested to hear your perspective- what about GUIs works better for you? What about the CLI is failing you?
Thank you!
Thanks for your reasonable reply and question! As for what I love about UI, it’s simple;
I don’t have to remember what to enter, just the pathway to get there.
With command line, you have to remember commands, arguments, syntax, and gods forbid you enter something wrong. It won’t work.
But with a (decently designed) UI, you merely have to remember the path you took to get to wherever you want to go, what buttons to press, what mouse movements to execute.
As someone with a limited attention span and energy to do things, this is a lifesaver.
As for Visual Studio, that’s a development preference. Code is too different for me to be comfortable in it, and relies on command line too much.
Thank you for responding! I really liked this bit
with a (decently designed) UI, you merely have to remember the path you took to get to wherever you want to go, what buttons to press, what mouse movements to execute.
I think that’s very insightful. I certainly have developed muscle-memory for many of my most-frequent commands in the CLI or editor of choice.
I agree about Visual Studio as a preference. I’ve used (or at least tried) dozens of IDE setups down the years from vi/emacs to JetBrains/VS to more esoteric things like Code Bubbles. I’ve found my personal happy place but I’d never tell someone else their way of working was wrong.
(Except for emacs devs. (Excepting again evil-mode emacs devs - who are merely confused and are approaching the light.)) ;)
Not OP. Used Linux since the late 90s. My daily driver is NixOS. GUI here is synonymous with TUI.
What about GUIs appeals to you over a command line?
I like the GUI because I can see what options the tool can execute in this state. I don’t have to pass
--helptogrepor keep several man page sections open. The machine knows what it’s capable of and I direct it.With CLIs I feel like I’m always relearning tools. Even something as straightforward as ‘enable a flag’ has different syntax. Is it
-flag?--flag?--enable-flag? Oh look, a checkbox.Not to say that I think a window environment is best for all things. When using an IDE, I have the terminal open constantly. Programmers are as bad at visual interfaces as they are module interfaces. If no UX designer was involved in displaying complex data or situations, I’m likely to try to fall back to the commandline. Just that - when there are GUI tools I tend to prefer them over an equivalent CLI tool.
tl;dr GUIs can represent the current state of a complex process and provide relevant context, instead of requiring the user to model that information (with large error bars for quality of the UI).
Anyway, I hope you take this in good humor and at least consider a TUI for your next project.
I hope you take this in good humor and at least consider a TUI for your next project.
Absolutely. I see what you did there… 😉
But seriously, thank you for your response!
I think your comment about GUIs being better at displaying the current state and context was very insightful. Most CLI work I do is generally about composing a pipeline and shoving some sort of data through it. As a class of work, that’s a common task, but certainly not the only thing I do with my PC.
Multistage operations like, say, Bluetooth pairing I definitely prefer to use the GUI for. I think it is partially because of the state tracking inherent in the process.
Thanks again!
This will be true when Linux supports anticheat (well, when anticheat supports Linux).
Sure, not everyone uses their computer for gaming, but I’m sure a lot would like the option.
well, when anticheat supports Linux
It certainly does in many games. Helldivers 2, Hunt: Showdown, and Warframe are rated gold on Linux, Guild Wars 2 is rated platinum. Those are the first four multiplayer games that came to mind.
Those are all great games, but the unfortunate truth is that you’re still going to be limited. Some people may be totally okay with only playing the games that get support but I feel like I’d always feel like I’m missing out if a game I’m really interested in doesnt.
They’re not exactly “being blocked” but rather the legacy ability to tell explorer.exe to load the older style Taskbar, which those apps load then modify, is going away. I’m not defending this nor do I like it, but it would be like saying some Linux distro is BLOCKING customization because some legacy app dependent on Xorg will not work after they switch to Wayland.
They’re not exactly “being blocked”
Simply renaming the executable works to re-enable Start All Back. They are being intentionally blocked by Microsoft.
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
Not if you’re using the preview build, where the entire functionality is removed. The warning is just a preemptive preparation for beta users. The bottom of the article indirectly mentions this.
But sure, downvote me.
One reason not to switch to linux: I want to play PCVR with my Quest 2. It has a really bad stutter when moving around using the only tool that works: ALVR, and this makes VR unplayable. I have not found an actual solution, just a handful of speculative issues threads that go silent as to what is the answer if any.
User won’t switch to Linux because of lack of software support, company won’t support Linux because of lack of user, such a vicious circle
Yeah you should stay on windows and never check out Linux. Hopefully ques too is great.
Reply or upvote if you already quit Schindows a long ago
I still can’t believe Linux only have 5% of OS market share
They are forced to use Windows, like me
My last two jobs require(d) me to run windows. At one, I spent 95% of my time in a Linux VM so it was more tolerable.
That’s a good option, only if you have a powerful PC. Mine is not enough powerful for WSL to run
Usually just VirtualBox VM’s – i’ve never touched WSL except for the original version way back in the 90’s I think.
I can’t even use virtual box at work, every time anyone downloads it, Oracle sics their licensing trolls at us, ignoring the fact that it’s free for all outside of the extension pack
I’m STILL pissed off that Oracle bought Sun
Are you guys installing the extension pack? That’s when the licensing weenies get to work. My old job ended up blocking oracle.com which was really fun for trying to read java docs. I would have to set up an ssh tunnel to my home server in order to download vbox release.
in the 90’s
Woah. You’re off by a lot. WSL isn’t even 10 years old.
I was thinking of the earlier incantation called Windows Services for Unix.
I hate it when software requires incantations to run
I really hate having the taskbar permanently affixed to the bottom of my screen. I’ve had it on the left side for decades now. They are really throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Someone at Microsoft “Customization is the enemy of progress!”
In Win98 we were able to put the taskbar anywhere natively and even could split those quick launch toolbars out of it and put it on another side by itself. I can’t believe MS is consrantly removing features. I’m a Linux user for decades now, but I still also use Windows at work and it’s always bothered me MS re-invents the wheel so often and every time the wheel looks a bit more like a rectangle.
The taskbar was movable since it was first introduced in Win95. I’ve always had a top taskbar, and will continue to do so in Linux.
Really, did they actually take that feature away. Every executive to touch windows 11 needs fired.
We just need to stop using this garbage. Its not going to get better. Migrate to Linux and hope for support.
I’ve had it up top for years. Windows 11 is unusable in the current state. The new shell is utter garbage. And they messed up the control panel even more than I thourght possible.
Why? Why even fucking do this? What do they get? And why is their default ux so aggressively terrible?
They want you to use the search instead of a functional interface. That’s why they keep making the interface worse.
It let’s them spy on you through bing, allows them to fill the results with ads, and lets them hide system applications unless you know exactly how to find them.
Its also them gearing up towards funneling the entire UX through copilot for largely the same reasons.
The entire goal is to flip the operating system from the slave of the user to the master of the content.
Yeah that sounds probable, and I’m worried what happens to all the data on windows machines when they do.
Oh God, I wish that you are wrong! Because if you’re right, that answer is horrifying!
As to how rationales go, this is the clearest.
I hate it.
Almost plausible, except their search doesn’t fucking work either. I have repeatedly had the experience of typing the exact name of a program I know I have installed only for it not to appear in the incremental results. Sometimes programs will appear if you type less than the full name but then disappear if you dare type all of it. Sometimes the only way for me to find programs I want is to use an alternative launcher like the one in PowerToys. The last time start menu search actually worked was Windows 8.1. I fucking hate it, and it has driven me to make the leap to Linux for my personal computer, I am loving it so far.
That’s… Exactly what I was talking about. Master of the content.
I am fully aware that the windows search hides things that you are actually searching for. Particularly if they are system preference apps, and it always goes to bing first regardless.
Also, I bailed as well. I use windows for work and school, otherwise I’m on linux.
Yeah, I think I was actually agreeing with you, I just had a rant that wanted to get out lol
Hmmm, maybe Windows hired some of the GNOME developers
Not even gnome is this fucking awful.
I’m on 10 and been a top taskbar guy for years. Are you saying 11 forces you to have taskbar only on bottom?
Correct
Welp fuck. Guess I’ll start looking at Linux but every company I’ve worked for in the past 10 years is ALL Microsoft all the way
Wine does a Lotta shit. I know I have an NTFS drive running on my debian-family machine.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say
Basically, they like to drink wine.
No. I’m kidding. WINE stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator, and it allows you to run Windows applications on a Linux machine. It’s far from perfect, but it can be a lifesaver when switching from Windows to Linux. What user melpomenesclevage is trying to say, is that you can use WINE to significantly blunt the blow / daily usability learning curve when switching, to keep some of your familiar applications as is.
Edit: here’s their site https://www.winehq.org/ the also explain it much better than I.
Sadly, wine does nothing for my work application.
Then wait until windows breaks it or it technically functions trapped in an unusable shell, and lose everything.
Same. Not being able to move the taskbar, alongside all the other downgrades to it and the start menu is what got me to check out Linux as a desktop OS for real, and not just out of curiosity. So far, I don’t see going back.
And I was even one of the few dozen people who loved Win8. At least there the points that got criticized were due to sweeping and bold changes. Win11 on the other hand feels like the same as 10 but with arbitrary features removed in the core part of the OS.
The fact that windows is now becoming Apple 2.0 is kinda crazy ngl lol, thought shouldn’t be surprising cuz every tech company is now doing enshittification at this point.
One tech company said “Hey, I can see the bottom!” and every other tech company replied “Race you there!”
Why is Microsoft even deciding what programs I can run on my computer in the first place? They’re not malware, they shouldn’t be doing this at all.
It’s the Windows Defender component. Blocking things that interfere with your computer is literally what it was designed and intended to do.
Turns out they don’t like people disabling their adware.
I don’t get people reacting to Windows critique with that “there are scripts and tools to disable anything”, some even have the gall to compare it to how I use Linux.
When we are talking about adware and spyware right from the vendor, who has the figurative “make shit really mandatory” button. Who is all-powerful there.
