Bethesda was under no obligation to talk to these mod devs beforehand. But it sure makes them look bad. As a recent comparable, Concerned Ape was open and communicative with all the mod devs before releasing his latest patch for Stardew Valley, a game that is just about as old as Fallout 4.
Bethesda has become a literal laughingstock at this point in time and it’s just funny to point at them every time they rack up another L.
Bethesda communicated beforehand for script extender Skyrim. Gave them an NDAA and allowed them to update the extender before the anniversary update release.
Don’t know why they didn’t do the same for Fallout
Stardew is such a good example given the community is similarly mod-centric
I recently had to find out that a mod author of a couple mods I was happily using on my PS5 copy of Skyrim removed their mods entirely because of another batch of greedy monetisation efforts from Bethesda, trying to monetise mods even further. Just fuck those guys man
Every single time this happens, people act like its the first time. Game updates -> Script Extender breaks -> Mods reliant on it break too. Every. Single. Time.
but this is a game that basically lives and dies by its mods, and this is an update that (arguably) changed nothing anyone who is still playing the game cares about after years of stability. why fix what isn’t broken?
For a company that relies 100% on modders for their games, you’d think they’d have an actual modding API built into their games by now.
There’s a pretty extensive API, capable of more than most games that advertise modding support, but it can’t do literally everything anyone could think of, so people reverse engineer the game engine to make it possible to do even more things (hence it being called a script extender rather than the modding API). It’s the mod reliant on reverse engineering the executable that break, not the ones using the modding API.
Imagine if Bethesda actually really listened to and catered to their modding community instead of just trying to monetize them. They would be legend right now.
“This thing they announced for last year, then pushed back to this year and released to coincide with a massively hyped TV show was a complete surprise to us.” Is that really FO:London’s stance? I mean, I feel for them that it sucks, but to call it a surprise feels straight up disingenuous.
How do you prepare for an update when Bethesda don’t tell you what is changing? It says in the article they had literally no correspondence from Bethesda until the update dropped, so the only thing they could do was keep developing and hope not too much broke in the process.
That being said, from what I understand is that the script extender broke, so they’re just waiting for an undefined time until that gets fixed for the latest update.
The script extender breaks with every update and is usually fixed within a week.
I’ll have to watch the BBC interview. The way the article is worded makes it sounds like they’ve been in communication with Bethesda while creating Fallout London.
There’s actually a comment to the effect that they had zero communication with Bethesda, but still wish they had been given earlier notice.
That’s the kicker lol. They didn’t communicate with Bethesda but expect Bethesda to communicate with them.
Yeah but what expectation could they have had that they’d need to communicate with Bethesda in the first place? The game’s been “complete” for several years at this point, and IIRC Skyrim Special Edition (the Skyrim version of what happened here) was both announced in advance and released as a separate game, so mods that weren’t getting updates could still function. In light of that, it seems reasonable for the developer to expect advance warning at least in the form of a press release prior to the update being made available. Should they have reached out every week asking whether Bethesda had any plans to update a 10-year-old game?
In light of that, it seems reasonable for the developer to expect advance warning at least in the form of a press release prior to the update being made available.
The modder said it themselves. It will take time for them to check the 4 years of work to see if it still function. At this point, no matter when Bethesda drop the update, they will complaint that it break their mod. This has been going on since the launch of FO4 where every time bethesda update the game, it break the mod, people complain about it, some straight out announce they won’t fix it until the final update. It’s nothing new.
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It wouldn’t be the first time, the SKSE team for Skyrim was in contact with Bethesda before Special Edition came out.
It was surreal watching BBC report on a game mod. I saw the thumbnail ‘Fallout London Delay’ with the BBC logo and thought there was a terrorist attack or something.
Fallout’s been full of Americana. The Euros haven’t had their shot at running around in places they know.
Why do they need to release for the newest version? If they were going to release soon anyways, just release for the old version of Fallout.
I’m picturing the number of messages they’d receive the day the update hit. People suck. Most will understand that they need to hold off on updating if they want to play the mod, some will seek support when it breaks. Some of those will say “that makes sense” and disappointedly wait for the mod to update, some of those will get angry. I certainly wouldn’t want an inevitable flood of angry emails a few days after the big release.
Yeah it doesn’t help that the Steam version would likely try to auto-update and I don’t believe there is an easy way to downgrade.
I could be wrong about that latter point. There might be an option in the properties menu similar to how you can opt into betas.
You have to disable automatic updates manually but it is possible.
Yup, if you use mods, it’s a good idea to set the game to update on launch through the game’s properties menu in its steam library listing.
Since a F4SE nodded game is going to launch through the script extender’s launcher, that keeps the game from updating automatically when starting a play session.
I also like to make a copy of my game folder and save it off in another drive so I have a backup.
I know it’s been possible to downgrade Skyrim after updates, but not through any official means, might be the same with FO4, not sure though.
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I’m disappointed in myself for buying FO4 recently.
If you just bought it, just play it. You don’t need mods.
This is untrue. Without the boner points to nearest valuable loot mod the game is unplayable.
I can’t play fnv without wmx anymore. I’m spoiled. Does fo4 weapon mod good?
FO4 has built in modding for weapons and armor. There are some great expansion mods that add mods too.
Dammit I just gotta buy this game already.
I’ve had it for a couple of years but just never got around to playing it. Was excited to do that now after watching the show but after the update it just instantly crashes after clicking “play” on the launcher (completely fresh install, all drivers etc updated). This seems to be very common too, tons of posts about it on the steam discussions. Sadly not super surprised, it’s Bethesda after all.
I was disappointed in myself for buying it when it first came out. I hope there has been a LOT of patching, because at release it was boring AF. Especially coming from FO3 where dialog options and story branching actually mattered. In FO4 I remember purposely choosing the dumbest dialog options and the game just led me where it wanted me to go anyway.
This disappointment was compounded by me also buying Just Cause 3 at the same time… Holy shit what a garbage weekend that was. That was the day I vowed to never buy a game on presale again.
Just Cause 2 was so much fun!
And nothing will ever beat FO:NV.
4 has been ok.
Am I the only person who never installed a single mod for any Bethesda game?
you’re missing out hundreds and thousands of awesome fan made content, there’s even entire fan made dlcs
Don’t forget the hundred-hour-long minigame of “Which order do these mods need to load in so they don’t break again?”
Modding is a hobby, and just like other hobbies, tinkering is part of the fun.
That automated settlement mod for FO4 single handedly rekindled my interest in the game.
I’m not building one more goddamn water purifier for you lazy bastards 😤
… Unless I see you have a slight shortage in your build plan
I feel like Bethesda built a neat mechanic into the engine, the in-game building, but then never did much with it. Yes, you can build a settlement, but the actual task is mostly pretty basic, not much integration or planning to it, and could be a bit grindy.The Sim Settlements 2 mod to which I assume you’re referring did a better job, though I still feel like one could do far more with player construction than has been done in any of:
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Vanilla Fallout 4: layout matters very little, building is mostly a sandbox for aesthetic fun, not much by way of layout decisions other than making some more expensive things harder for raiders to hit. Does have the “The Castle” fight, but that’s short and about it for a real fight. Kind of grindy. Can get aid from the Minutemen if a settlement is nearby with th flaregun mechanic, though that’s pretty minor and I never bothered. Get some settler-produced resources which don’t matter. Get a sleeping spot, which can matter in hardcore mode. Not Sim City or Caesar in 3D.
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Fallout 4 with minor mods: can remove more items in an area to get a cleaner look; some of these break precombines, which hurt engine performance. Can build anywhere, not just in settlements. Can break the restrictions imposed by vanilla Fallout 4 on number of items that can be built (which keep performance sane).
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Fallout 4 modded with Sim Settlements 2. Does a better – albeit still kinda sketchy from a story standpoint – job of incorporating building into the game, has a storyline and quests. Eliminates the grind aspect – you can just take a settlement and let the settlers do almost all the construction, and get much-more-elaborate reconstruction of the Wasteland then I’d manually do. Does some rebalancing so that the weight on the Local Leader perk to make settlements trade, a major QoL improvement, is basically free. Gives me more of a feeling of progress. Plays reasonably well with people doing manual construction alongside the computer-driven stuff. More-substantial automated production. The randomized stuff malign what shows up something of a surprise helps keep it a bit interesting. Makes the game feel a lot more active. Still doesn’t have a lot of gameplay around layout.
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Fallout 76: Player CAMPs are very important to the game, as they contain essential equipment, and defending them is important. Still not a lot to the layout in terms of gameplay. Some people (not me – I’m in the “floating platform” crowd) really enjoy doing realistic and aesthetic CAMPs, and it’s a way to help put a very limited form of player-driven content creation into a form where everyone can easily enjoy it. Player vending machines, scrapboxes, respec locations, and workbenches (to create scrapping locations for overloaded players) create a reason for other players to visit and see them. Extremely limited automated production of certain resources – if you want some very specific builds, like Nuka-Cola-based weaponry, automated production might be useful, but in general, it’s not worth your time.
There are player Shelters as well, “underground” or otherwise off-the-main-map mini maps that players can own and build freely in; there are entered from various entrances created in a player CAMP. I think that this was intended to leverage a survival aspect of Fallout 76 that was originally intended to be a lot more important – radstorms, and needing to seek shelter. These are so infrequent and weak, though, that by the time one gets to Shelters, they’re essentially ignorable. Nothing in a Shelter can be attacked by raiders, but automated production does not work in a Shelter.
With a subscription, there are placeable Tents that can be put on the map in places not one’s CAMP. These provide a resting, scrapbox, and scrapping location that can exist anywhere. Helpful QoL to stick near boss fight locations.
Bethesda sells cosmetic items, if you like that sort of thing (which based on EA’s sales of items for The Sims, I assume some people very much do like). Not very much potential for modding here, due to it being a multiplayer game with the servers run by Bethesda, so unless Bethesda gets and decides to plunge a lot of money into it, vanilla Fallout 76 is probably about as much as there’s going to be.
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Starfield. Meaningful automated production system and resource-hunting system, with slightly more-interesting layout and defense. The problem here is that the only real gameplay reason to build bases is to…get lots of resources, which are only really useful to build large bases. It lets players who don’t like building skip that aspect of the game, but at least to me, made the building aspect feel kind of pointless and circular. We’ll see what happens with mods. The engine is good, and there’s potential for interesting things to happen, but if they don’t get created, well…
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Weird flex
Not a flex, just find it astounding to know how good the original games were and for people to say they suck without mods. I see that a lot.
I mean you do you, but Beth games are modding playgrounds, the only other games I can think of really is Rimworld. So for me, playing a Bethesda game modless is like eating a sandwhich of white bread and mayo
Nah, I’m right there with you.
I mean, it’s fine as a stand-alone game, and selecting and setting up a collection of mods takes longer than I’d like. I kind of wish that the default starting point was to do something like what Wabbajack does, use a large curated set of mods, but then let one tweak it like the regular mod managers. But Skyrim and Fallout 4 have to be some of the most-modded games out there. It’s a lot of content and improvements from the community.
They also released some years back. Without mods, they look kinda old in present-day context.
This marks you as having several personality traits. Do you vote or lean conservative?
Username checks out. Nope you’re way off
hah, yes it does. and good, glad to hear it ;)
Pretty sure this was fully intended. You’re getting a bunch of band new buyers from the TV show. This can be a way to direct them towards their CC and away from free mods.
I doubt it. Most people seem to regard Creation Club content as something different than regular mods. You can check out the content that’s available here but a majority of it is closer to the paid skins found in online games than what people typically associate with modding and meaningfully altering a game.
I think Bethesda knows this and most people looking to mod Fallout 4 are probably going to continue working with what’s available.
Can’t help but feel for the developers here. I get that Bethesda has no responsibility to keep 3rd party Devs updated, but surely someone on the team would have noticed the potential for community engagement and worked with those putting the time and effort into the IP.
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Have they never had to deal with a Bethesda patch before!?
I get this project is a big deal for some folks but having a hard time accepting the argument that I shouldn’t get a better visual/overall game experience because of a mod I’ll never play and their apparent lack of communication with Bethesda. They just expected to be that high of priority? Am I reading this wrong?
Edit: reading through comments I’m a little more sympathetic to modders writ large than I am this team specifically but I get the frustration. Bethesda could’ve done everyone a solid and given a little heads up. Still, it sounds like this project has been massive in scope and basically any changes were going to cause them issues so that’s worth considering here too.
One route might be to push out a new release for a month or something on a beta branch so that modders can see what breaks and provide some time to fix it prior to it being pushed out to everyone.
Take longer to get updates out, but reduce windows where mods are broken.
No, this is a bad idea because it makes too much sense.
It would’ve shaved one month off their currently undetermined new release date it sounds like.
They’re saying this will take more than 2 months. They’re upset because it effectively undoes a lot of their work, which sucks, but that was always going to be the case unless bethesda went out of their way like a year ago to tell them what was coming. And remember, these guys aren’t even in the creator club or in any way communicating with Bethesda. I just think it’s a little unreasonable to be so independent while expecting Bethesda to anticipate their very specific needs.
I wish Bethesda did and maybe I’m being too generous but idk. Just not really sure I am 100% sympathetic to their plight here.
So, I’m not saying that I agree with them slagging on Bethesda here. Hell, they haven’t even released their mod yet. Doesn’t break things for their players.
But there is legitimately an issue where Bethesda pushes out an update and mods break. They have talked to a few of the very core mod creators early before to help alleviate breakage, but it can still leave mod-using players with a broken environment for some time.
Obviously, Bethesda’s primary responsibility is to people playing vanilla, the stuff that they release.
But there are a lot of modders and people playing with mods, especially a decade after release.
Some of it is just a hard technical problem. There’s gonna be some degree or breakage at updates.
But I think that it’s also true that there are a few things that Bethesda could do to help alleviate the breakage beyond what they have.
Plus, you know, even aside from mods, doing a beta branch does have some benefits. Lets Bethesda find out about some bugs before they push an update to everyone. They won’t catch everything with internal testing.
Like I said in my edit, I’m not entirely defending Bethesda here. I’m just trying to look at this case specifically and not let their entire history color it, as difficult as that may be. FOLON is somewhat turning this into a blame game, where I don’t think anyone’s really at fault except arguably Bethesda in that specific case.
Even with all of that in mind, Bethesda should have been in better communication with modders. There’s no doubt here. They are critical part of the overall success and staying power of their games.
From a business/PR standpoint, Bethesda missed a great opportunity to regain some rapport with the community post-Starfield
Considering mods, whether you like it or not, are a massive reasons for these games’ lasting appeal, yeah I’d consider it a big deal. You may not use mods, and hey good for you, but the billions of downloads from Nexus mods solely for these games in particular shows that many others do.
Regardless, ignoring all of that, the Skyrim Script Extender Team was in contact with Bethesda before Special Edition released, giving them time to work on an SE version for when the day came. So it was perfectly reasonable for the Fallout Script Extender Team to expect the same.
I agree FSET got done dirty
accepting the argument that I shouldn’t get a better visual/overall game experience because of a mod I’ll never play
I’d be surprised if they’d do something substantial. They only do that to keep paid DLCs and mods afloat.
BGS: because fuck you, that’s why.
I just received the update and the graphics are much better in the XBox. Everything is much more smooth.
Probably jack shit compared to the graphical mods that were already out there
And enbs
Not everyone wants to mod the game, though.
I get that but when it comes to Bethesda games the vast majority of people do. And it really sucked what they’ve done to us.
I’m just confused why people are downvoting the person for giving their observation of the update. Should they have lied and said the graphics look worse? Lemmy is so shitty sometimes.
Eh yeah true. That should not have happened. This place is just as toxic as reddit ever was when it comes to shit like this lol. hell look at that weird ass dude calling me entitled for wanting a functioning product to stay that way.
“what they’ve done to us”
Goddamn the entitlement is dripping off this comment.
Hardly. They’re using us to refer to modders which are thousands of players. How the fuck would you write a sentence that includes a group and mention that they’ve done something that negatively impacted said group?
I really fucking hate how quickly some people on lemmy call others entitled.
uhh…what? how is that entitled? to want the mods that worked great to just keep working that way?
They broke our mods to introduce more microtransactions. Sure its not the worst thing ever, but its still bad.
Probably the fps bump, which could’ve been done ages ago if they wanted to, and with far less drama. It’s about as simple as ticking a box.
And apparently it doesn’t even include graphical improvements. At least on PC.
Yeah cool but can it still run the genitalia mods?!
Only the genital mods themselves. All the stuff that uses them are broken.
